Covid-19 Update

Jonathan Ashworth Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab/Co-op)]

As always, I am grateful for my advance copy of the statement.

We welcome the restrictions that the Government have imposed—indeed, we would have welcomed them on Tuesday afternoon, had the Secretary of State confirmed what was being said on Twitter that morning. Case numbers have been rising sharply in recent days across all ages and sadly the number of hospital admissions is beginning to increase as well. We all want to avoid a second national lockdown. Lockdowns extract a heavy social and economic price on those already suffering, and we should also remember, especially today, which is World Suicide Prevention Day, the mental health impact of lockdowns.

Before I comment on the substance of the Secretary of State’s remarks, I want to ask about schools. We have had many examples across the country of classes and whole year groups—hundreds, possibly thousands, of pupils—starting the new term as they finished the last term: at home and not in education. Is it really the Government’s policy that if there are one or two positive cases in a year group, the whole year group is sent home for two weeks? If so, are parents and carers eligible for sick pay and financial support, given that they will have to take time off work to look after their children?

We were promised a world-beating test, trace and isolate regime by now. The Secretary of State says we have one. On Tuesday, I highlighted the deteriorating performance in finding contacts. He said that I had muddled my figures. Full Fact said I was right and he was wrong. I will leave it to him to judge whether he wants to correct the record. I would rather he just correct Test and Trace. In one study, researchers found that 75% of infected people did not adhere to the self-isolation rules. I know he is piloting extra support, but we need a system now, urgently, so that those who are low paid and in insecure work can isolate without fear of losing their jobs. We need a system immediately. We have been calling for it for months.

On testing, the Secretary of State told us a few moments ago to get with the programme. We just want him to deliver testing for our constituents. We have had example after example of people being told to go hundreds of miles. In Telford, the borough has been gridlocked because the system has been telling everybody to go to Telford. Yesterday, the Secretary of State was touring TV studios trying to dampen demand, even though he had previously said in the House in July to people with symptoms:

“If in doubt, get a test.”—[Official Report, 20 July 2020; Vol. 678, c. 1864.]

He was telling people to get tests.

Given that the Secretary of State had encouraged people to get tests, and with 8 million pupils returning to school, with thousands going back to workplaces, as his Prime Minister has insisted on, surely it was obvious there would be extra demand on the system, so why did he not plan extra resource capacity to process tests? It is not the fault of ill people asking for tests; it is his fault for not providing them. We have had no apology today to our constituents who have been told to travel hundreds of miles for a test.

Having failed to provide the tests that people need and, by the way, having failed to provide wider diagnostic tests—the waiting list for diagnostic tests hit 1.2 million today, the highest on record—the Secretary of State now wants to deliver 10 million tests a day as part of his so-called Project Moonshot. I have long been pushing him for a strategic mass testing regime, and from the start the World Health Organisation has told us to “test, test, test”, but we are all fed up with undelivered promises and “world beating”. Mass testing is too important to become another failed project. It is all well and good the Secretary of State talking about moonshots, or the Prime Minister telling us that we will be tested every morning, but even better would be simply to deliver the extra testing that is needed now, not just the headline figures.

I have some specific questions. First, the Prime Minister told the nation that he wants this in place by the spring. The chief scientific adviser pointed out that it would be

“completely wrong to assume this is a slam dunk that can definitely happen”.

How quickly will this be delivered, and how quickly will the pilots in Salford and Southampton be assessed?

Secondly, what is the cost? According to The BMJ—the British Medical Journal—leaked documents suggest that the cost will be £100 billion. Is that correct? If not, will the Secretary of State tell us his estimate of the cost of processing 10 million tests a day, and will he tell us how much has been allocated to Project Moonshot?

Thirdly, who will deliver that? There are universities piloting projects, such as the University of Leicester rolling out LAMP—loop-mediated isothermal amplification —testing, so what discussions has the Secretary of State had with them? However, it has been reported that he has already signed agreements and understandings for the delivery of this project with GSK, Serco and G4S. What procurement processes have been undertaken, and will he tell us whether that is correct?

Fourthly, what are the priorities? The Secretary of State is still not testing the loved ones of care home residents who are desperate to see relatives, and when will the Government actually deliver the routine testing of all frontline NHS staff, which we have been demanding for months? Effective testing depends on quick turnaround, local access and effective contact tracing. Given that he has not even been able to deliver those basics, how on earth do we expect him to deliver this moonshot?

[Matt Hancock]

The hon. Gentleman was rather better when he was supporting the Government action in the first part of his response. He cannot seem to decide whether he is in favour of more testing, or against it. All we get is complaint after complaint, rather than support for his constituents and the people of this country in our quest to get through this virus.

First, on who is eligible for a test, precisely as I said and as he literally read out, if you have symptoms, get a test. If you do not have symptoms, you are not eligible for a test, unless specifically asked for one. [Hon. Members: “If in doubt!”] Yes, if you have symptoms and are in doubt about whether those symptoms are coronavirus, get a test. If you do not have symptoms, do not get a test. That has not changed. It is exactly the same. What has changed is that the hon. Member for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth) does not know whether he is coming or going.

The hon. Gentleman does not seem to understand that the way in which we build a huge project like our testing, which is at record levels, is to back all the horses. Once again, he complained about businesses supporting us in our roll-out of mass testing. That divisive approach is wrong. We support universities, businesses and the NHS to deliver more testing; we do not support the totally confused approach of the Opposition. He does not know whether he is in favour of or against more testing.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the money, and £500 million has thus far been allocated to this project, but more is likely. He asked about staff testing in the NHS. As he well knows, we follow clinical advice, but always keep it under review. Finally, he asked about schools. The policy on schools is that, if somebody tests positive, that bubble needs to self-isolate. A bubble is defined as those who are in close contact within a school setting.

I will end on a point on which we agree strongly. On this, World Suicide Prevention Day, all of us are united in support of the mental health services provided across this country, and of all those who are working hard for those with mental ill health or at risk of suicide. That is a project on which all of us are on the same side and working together to support people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matt Hancock]

Someone who has symptoms can of course apply for a test in a drive-through centre or to have the home test. Of course, those are available; it is just that demand has gone up, especially demand from those who do not have symptoms. Those who do not have symptoms but have been in close contact with someone who has tested positive should not be applying for a test, because, as was mentioned earlier, they may get a false negative and actually need to self-isolate. We are really clear about who should be getting a test and who is eligible for a test. In a way, though, my hon. Friend’s question demonstrates why mass testing is also so important—it means we can roll out testing even further. The hon. Member for Leicester South used to be a great supporter of Tony Blair—

[Jonathan Ashworth]

I am.

[Matt Hancock]

In that case, maybe he needs to have a word with the former Prime Minister. Tony Blair is a big fan of mass testing. It is a pity the hon. Gentleman does not know which way he is looking.