Relationships and Sex Education

Debate between John Howell and Seema Malhotra

Monday 25th February 2019 Westminster Hall

[John Howell]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. One does not want to see that level of abuse continuing down the generations, but those issues can be picked up by other measures and dealt with in that way.

[Seema Malhotra]

Could the hon. Gentleman explain how he sees that happening? I will give him an anecdotal statistic from my constituency. I asked a headteacher of a primary school how many children in one class he thought might be subject to seeing domestic violence at home. His answer was five or six, which is pretty staggering. It shows a huge risk in the environments that many young children are growing up in.

[John Howell]

I am afraid that I do not know the answer to the hon. Lady’s question. I will not attempt one off the top of my head, but will think about it for a little bit.

I believe that we already take away so much from childhood. We should fight against the sexualisation of children—that applies to all children. I see a need to address some of these issues, but I do not see that the details of reproductive sex should be part of the compulsory situation.

There is a lot of good in the proposals for relationships education. I will give two examples, the first of which is mental health. I have always had a great interest in the mental health of children at schools in my constituency. One only has to look at incidents of children’s mental ill health to see that we do not want the child to continue to be distressed.

We live in a completely different age to that in which I was brought up. We live in an age in which there is a tremendous amount of social media—it is almost impossible to get away from it. That can produce the problems of pornography. There is a need to have some awareness, but that is an area in which the parents can be involved in a big way.

The second issue is online grooming. I come from a county that has had a major online-grooming scandal over the past few years. Seven individuals abused many girls—I have no idea how many, but the BBC claimed that hundreds of girls could have been abused in that way. I would like evidence to show what effect relationships education could have had in that situation. Could it have prevented that abuse from taking place or were parents in a better position to deal with it?

There are different types of relationships, of course. One cannot pretend that schools exist in a vacuum. One cannot pretend that we do not have lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender relationships. I have been very supportive of them. We have to acknowledge that that is the legal situation in the country. We need to talk about the fact that different forms of relationships exist and make that fact clear.

We are not asking for sacred religious texts to be rewritten or torn up. The role of Ofsted, which was mentioned earlier, is absolutely crucial in that respect. I urge the Government to instruct Ofsted to take a sensitive approach in recognising the nature of faith schools, and to work with the schools to deliver a better view of the way in which they deliver education. That means that schools need to be able to teach—they have a duty to teach—what is allowable under the law without having to approve it. That is the situation at the moment.

In making these remarks I have been advised by the Jewish Community Council and the Torah Education Committee, which run a number of Orthodox Jewish schools. It should be taken as a positive sign that they have reached out, because they are concerned about the effects of the regulations and would like to work with the Government to take them forward. Above all, it is important to remember that we are not asking them to tear up the Torah in order to take this forward. We are asking them to work with the Government to come to a proper solution.

Solitary Confinement (Children and Young People)

Debate between John Howell and Seema Malhotra

Tuesday 1st May 2018 Westminster Hall

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered use of solitary confinement for children and young people in the justice system.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I thank the Speaker’s Office for granting this debate. I thank the Minister for coming to respond and all Members who have joined me for this discussion. May I also put on record my appreciation for the British Medical Association, the Howard League for Penal Reform, the Royal College of Psychiatrists and the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health for their tireless campaigning on human rights in the context of healthcare?

Two weeks ago I hosted a roundtable in Parliament with the BMA, the Royal College of Psychiatrists and the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. They have issued a joint call for solitary confinement to be banned for children who are locked up in the UK. That call is based on evidence of harm, and they have urged the Government to act. Importantly, they have also produced guidance to help improve care for those segregated by prison officers until any ban is in place. The roundtable was attended by peers and MPs, including my hon. Friends the Members for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury), for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) and for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green).

In response to a written parliamentary question that I tabled in January, the Government said:

“We do not use solitary confinement. Young people can be removed from association under careful control where they will not be permitted to associate with other young people.”

The Minister repeated last Friday that the UK does not use solitary confinement. Solitary confinement is defined under international human rights law as

“the confinement of prisoners for 22 hours or more a day without meaningful human contact.”

Many I have talked to have said they are not clear on the distinction between solitary confinement and removal from association. Indeed, YoungMinds says that regardless of the term,

“we consider any individual who is physically isolated and deprived of meaningful contact with others for a prolonged period of time to be in solitary confinement.”

[John Howell (Henley) (Con)]

Given what the hon. Lady has said about the definitions of solitary confinement, it would be helpful to know how many people she thinks are trapped in the solitary confinement system, so that we can get a feel for how big the problem is.

[Seema Malhotra]

I will come on to that point. One point I will make is about the inadequate collection of data. What information we receive comes partly through the lens of healthcare providers and charities that are taking calls from prisoners in distress.

To continue the point I was making, I should be grateful if the Minister would clarify the substantive difference between the international definition of solitary confinement and the Government’s definition of removal from association.

Let me outline the current situation. Under rule 49 of the young offender institution rules, a prison governor can authorise removal from association for up to 42 days. That can be extended further after application to the Secretary of State. I understand that, as we have just discussed, national data on the use of solitary confinement within the youth secure estate are not currently collected. That is concerning, as it means that no accurate data exists as to how many children and young people are being held in isolation and for what period of time. However, anecdotal evidence from the Equality and Human Rights Commission and others suggests that it is on the increase. Will the Minister clarify the situation on data collection? What steps can be taken to change it?

According to the recent BMA guidance, “The medical role in solitary confinement”, the use of solitary confinement in the UK youth justice system is much more widespread than we might realise. According to studies that the guidance flags, almost four in 10 boys in detention spend some time in solitary confinement—some for periods of almost three months. Some estimates suggest the duration of confinement can range anywhere from an average of eight days up to 60 or even 80 days. Children and young people are also increasingly being kept in conditions of solitary confinement—in cells or rooms for up to 22 hours a day—amid reports of staff shortages and increased violence. There is also evidence referred to by the Children’s Commissioner that certain groups may be more likely to experience isolation.