Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between John Hemming and Penny Mordaunt

Monday 2nd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

The national service framework has been changed and it came into effect on 12 January—that was the fitness protections. Fire and rescue authorities have to follow the national service framework: it is not an option. We have been very clear that if a firefighter loses fitness through no fault of their own, they should get an alternative role or a full unreduced pension. These are new protections, despite the fact that firefighters have been required to work to 60 since 2006.

[John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD)]

I was one of the Members who backed the Government given the assurances from the Minister, but the documentation from the employers indicates something else. What clarification can she give about what the employers are saying?

[Penny Mordaunt]

Clearly, we can change the law. If fire and rescue authorities decide that they will not follow the law, we will spot that because we have also undertaken to audit this process and their adoption of new fitness principles. The Secretary of State also has powers to intervene. I have no indication that fire and rescue authorities will not adhere to the national service framework. If hon. Members know differently, they should let me know.

Holiday Pricing

Debate between John Hemming and Penny Mordaunt

Monday 24th February 2014 Westminster Hall

[John Hemming]

I thank my hon. Friend for that comment. As I talk about specific examples, we will see that different families have different circumstances, and a one-size-fits-all approach is not necessarily the best solution.

It is interesting that the tensions that have arisen beyond the initial problem of high prices during the holidays are the result of the new regulations, passed in statutory instrument 2013 No. 756. For those interested in procedural issues, as I am, I should say that the regulations went through Parliament under a negative resolution—that is, they would pass as long as Parliament did not vote against them. Parliament would have had an opportunity to discuss the regulations had anyone tabled an early-day motion praying against them, but no one did. There was no discussion.

The regulations were laid before Parliament on 4 April 2013. There was no request to debate them on the Floor of the House of Lords either. That House differs from the House of Commons in that it has a Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which looked at the regulations and decided not to comment on them. However, we have heard from our constituents that there are considerable problems across the country. That shows the strength of the e-petitioning process. Something went through Parliament on the nod, but constituents had a mechanism to express concerns. The issue has been raised and now everyone present is here to debate it.

I must disagree with the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey). The Department for Education website states that the regulations were changed from allowing up to 10 school days—not 10 school sessions—per year for holidays to allowing children to leave school only in exceptional circumstances. As I said, I will come to specific examples. Although there was some form of consultation on changes to the regulations, that did not get across to people and Parliament was not aware of constituents’ concerns when the changes were made. However, that has now changed.

How do we deal with the issue? Obviously, many of our constituents face a serious problem; that is evidenced by the number of people in the Chamber. Concerns have been expressed about the extent to which companies can be forced to charge the same price throughout the year. I do not think that that is a practical solution, particularly given that the market includes people visiting this country—we could end up with holiday touts and all sorts of things.

There are two solutions for dealing with demand. First, we could have flexibility in holiday periods: we could stagger holidays. Secondly, we could have more flexibility—moving back towards how things were previously, although not necessarily all the way—and allow people to take their children out of school in term time, in the right circumstances. I think that would be reasonable in some circumstances.

Looking further at how the issue is regulated, we already have Ofcom, Ofwat and Ofgem; I do not think we can have Offonholiday—that would not work. A reduction in air passenger duty has been proposed, but there would be problems with that. First, it would not benefit UK holidaymakers. Paul Cookson, who I referred to earlier, was worried about the doubling of prices at Center Parcs. As Center Parcs is in the UK, a reduction in air passenger duty would not have an effect on people going there. If the APD proposal reached the Treasury, it would go into a nosedive; we would find that it was not a flyer—[Interruption.] Sorry about that. I will give up on the jokes now.

We come to the question of what will happen as far as flexibility for holidays is concerned. I have found an interesting copy of Travel Trade Gazette from 1963, which reports:

“It was in the House of Commons on February 12, 1960, that approval was first given to the setting up of a committee to examine the question of extending the U.K. holiday season.

The subject was introduced by Mr. Robert Mathew, M.P. for Honiton, in a motion which read:

‘That this House, recognising the need to extend and adjust the holiday period so as to relieve congestion at the peak period, asks Her Majesty’s Government to set up a committee to examine this question urgently with special reference to the educational, tourist trade and transport interests concerned, and the problem of summer time, with the power to recommend early action.’ ”

We are now a good few years on; we did not have the early action. That was in 1963. In 1964, the heads of Germany’s regional governments, which are responsible for state education, were called together to stagger the summer holidays in such a way as to prevent all the region’s leisure seekers from leaving for and returning from their holidays at the same time, with the corresponding detrimental effect on traffic and demand for accommodation in tourist areas. They divided the country into five roughly equal population blocks, which were all to have different holiday periods that moved around. It is interesting that Germany managed to do something. In fact, I understand that the Republic of Ireland, the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Finland and France also have such a facility.

Interestingly, schedule 14 to the Deregulation Bill, currently being discussed, allows head teachers to decide when holidays are. The general secretary of the National Association of Head Teachers, Russell Hobby, said recently that the NAHT has been saying for some time that there is an argument for more flexibility over term times, to relieve the pressures that drive up holiday costs. However, it is important for schools to co-ordinate timings across a town or region; parents with children at different schools would not welcome the inconvenience and child care costs of different term dates. That is obviously sensible. We must also think of the teachers; those with children would not like their children’s holidays to be at a different time from theirs.

Staggering holiday dates can definitely be done, but it will need co-ordination; it will not be something to wash our hands of. It may be for the Select Committee on Education to consider, in conjunction with other people, how we might stagger holidays across the country so that we do not end up with everyone trying to go on holiday at the same time and prices rocketing.

That is one question. The more difficult question is when people should be allowed out of school during term time and what exemptions should apply. Again, I will quote from what people have said to me. One person says:

“This coming Tuesday is my uncle’s funeral in Folkestone…Our three children were quite close to him. We enquired of their schools (primary and secondary) whether they would be prepared to grant exceptional circumstance leave for one day only and in both cases they said they felt unable to do so under the new rules.”

There we have a specific example of children being refused permission to go to the funeral of their great-uncle. Personally, I think that is wrong.

Other parents do not have a choice as to when they have holiday. A lady who returned from maternity leave to her post as a staff nurse in a bone marrow transplant unit at a hospital put in an early request for annual leave during the Easter or summer half-term break. Her requests were not granted, as too many other nurses were off during those periods and the unit must remain adequately staffed. In addition, her husband has been unable to secure annual leave during the summer. They have always made their best efforts to book holiday time during school breaks, but the only week that they could secure together this year was in June, when there is no school holiday. That lady spends her time saving lives. She is committed to that, so she does not have flexibility in her holidays, and the new rules say that she cannot go on holiday with her children. I think that is wrong, too.

[Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman also recognise the particular problems faced by members of the armed forces? Some schools have been pragmatic in allowing members of the armed forces, particularly if they are being deployed, to spend a holiday with their children. It is particularly shoddy when they are not given that opportunity, especially now that we have the armed forces covenant.

[John Hemming]

I thank the hon. Lady for making that excellent point. I would happily have made it myself, but I now no longer need to.