Higher Education Fees

Debate between John Denham and Jim Cunningham

Thursday 9th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab)]

I note that the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister have already walked out of the debate. It is a shame that the two architects of this policy do not have the courtesy to stay and listen to both sides of the debate.

I fear I may have to lower Opposition Members’ expectations. Those of my hon. Friends who have come here expecting some good party political knockabout—U-turns, broken promises and fees policies described by the Deputy Prime Minister as a “disaster” that he now claims to believe in—need to know that I am not going to do that speech. So much of the media coverage of this issue has been dominated by Liberal Democrat splits that we could be forgiven for thinking that today’s vote is about the future of the Liberal Democrats. It is not about the future of the Liberal Democrats; it is about something much more important than that. There are millions of parents and millions of current and future students who do not care about the Liberal Democrats, but who do care about the huge fee increase that we are being asked to decide today. Today’s decision must be taken on the facts and on the merits. If this Tory measure goes through with the support or abstention of Liberal Democrats, that party will forfeit the right to call itself a progressive political party.

The House can stop that decision today. The deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats says that he cannot support the Government—as well he might, because his local university’s funding will be cut from £38 million to £3 million a year, and it has already said that it wishes to charge the full £9,000 tuition fee. The Liberal Democrats’ deputy leader says that he may vote against the Government, and if he and every Member of the House—not just Liberal Democrat Members, but Conservative Members, Labour Members and Members of other parties—vote against the proposal today, it will fall.

Let me set out why Members should vote against, or vote for a delay and a rethink, rather than abstaining.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Secretary of State said earlier that 15 vice-chancellors support him? I have a petition from the university of Warwick of 240 leading academics in this country who object to the increases in charges and, more importantly, call for a public inquiry into the future of education. What does my right hon. Friend think about that?

[Mr Denham]

There is widespread disquiet not only in the academic community. Significantly, the Secretary of State referred to the letter from Universities UK but did not read it out, because it makes it absolutely clear that Universities UK opposes the cuts in higher education funding on which the fee increase is based. He has persuaded vice-chancellors, with a gun to their head, that as the money is going the fee increase is the only option in town, but that hardly speaks of him persuading the university community of the policy.

As you said last night, Mr Speaker, today’s vote is on a narrow issue—the fee cap. Behind that, however, is the most profound change in university funding since the University Grants Committee was set up in the 1920s. It is the ending of funding for most university degrees. It is a huge burden of debt on graduates. It is an untried, untested and unstable market for students.

Although there is always room for improvement, England enjoys a world-class university system: world-class in research, with a disproportionate number of the best research universities; and a richness and diversity of higher education to compare with the best. The risks are so high, and the consequences so unclear, that no sane person would rush the proposal through without proper debate or discussion. Today, however, we do not even have the promised higher education White Paper to tell us how it is meant to work.

Postal Services Bill

Debate between John Denham and Jim Cunningham

Wednesday 27th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denham]

The previous Labour Government floated proposals for the sale of a minority stake. Given the changes that have taken place in Royal Mail, there may be ways of accessing private capital that do not depend on an equity stake. Some partnerships of that sort might well be highly desirable, but the question is whether anything the Secretary of State said made the case for a total sale of the company. I listened to him very carefully, but I did not hear a single sentence that made a case for clause 1, which is the basis on which we oppose the Bill.

[Mr Jim Cunningham]

It does not take long for employees to sell their shares, so selling shares to employees would create another imbalance.

[Mr Denham]

I understand my hon. Friend’s point, but the Opposition should explore positively, including in discussions with the unions, how employee share ownership might work. Models of trust-based employee share ownership would avoid the risks he describes. It would clearly be nonsense to provide shares to employees that could be sold on within a few months, which happened in many previous privatisations, to everyone’s great regret. We should look at the conditions, but I agree that it would be a complete nonsense to create the conditions he describes.

[Mr Cunningham]

I remember the privatisation of Rolls-Royce. The employees were given shares, but rapidly sold them.

[Mr Denham]

Clearly, any measure that allowed that kind of swift onward sale, resulting essentially in 100% private ownership of Royal Mail, would explode the Government’s rhetoric on the Bill. I can assure my hon. Friend that we will look at the proposals in great detail in Committee.

[Mr Denham]

That is an important point. If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will return in a moment to how majority sale or full sale would shift the balance of power against the public interest during the sales process.

[Mr Jim Cunningham]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Mr Denham]

If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I will happily take another intervention from him when I come to my point on protecting the public interest during the sale.

I said that the Bill excludes the public from any potential long-term gain from a transformed Royal Mail, but in addition the benefits could go entirely to overseas interests. Frankly, I am surprised how sanguine the Secretary of State is at that prospect, because faced with the sale of Cadbury to Kraft, he said:

“It is particularly galling…that state-owned RBS should part fund this takeover when it is clearly not in the interests of the UK economy.”

I must point out that the Secretary of State is today effectively using taxpayers’ money to transfer the ownership of Royal Mail overseas.

There are good reasons to worry about the public interest during the sales process. On one side will be potential buyers, who will have every interest in lobbying for the maximum commercial freedom for the operation and for the minimum of social obligation. The other side—we might like to think this means the Secretary of State, but it means the Treasury—has an interest in gaining the highest price. Both sides, therefore, will argue to cut social obligation to a minimum. It is not difficult to anticipate the outcome of that situation. I suspect that one reason the Secretary of State was able to say so little on the long-term interest of Royal Mail in the post office network is precisely that he is caught uncomfortably in the vice between the Treasury and potential buyers.