Scotland Bill
Debate between Joanna Cherry and Alberto Costa(9 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Joanna Cherry
I think I will make some progress, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind.
Last year, the Scottish Parliament voted by 100 to 10 to endorse the Human Rights Act, and civic society in Scotland, from the Scottish Trades Union Congress to the Church of Scotland, also opposes repeal. Nevertheless, this UK Government have repeatedly confirmed that they intend to go ahead with repeal and that it will apply equally in Scotland as in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
In Scotland, we are concerned by repeated statements from Ministers of this Government suggesting they believe they could repeal the Act without consulting the Scottish Parliament. Their argument seems to be that they would not need a legislative consent motion, but that is incorrect. Human rights are not a reserved matter under the devolution settlement. Schedule 4 to the Scotland Act 1998 protects the Human Rights Act against modification by the Scottish Parliament, but human rights per se are not a reserved matter. They are not listed as such among the reserved matters in schedule 5 to the 1998 Act. It was part of the late Donald Dewar’s scheme that all matters would be devolved unless specifically reserved, and human rights are not specifically reserved.
Moreover, human rights and the European convention on human rights are written into the Scotland Act, meaning that the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Ministers cannot pass legislation that is incompatible with the convention.
Joanna Cherry
No, I will make progress. We have heard quite a lot from the hon. Gentleman already. These are important points of great concern to the Scottish electorate, and I want to make them very clear.
In Scotland, we have a national action plan for human rights, as well as a United Nations-accredited Scottish Human Rights Commission, and our commitment to human rights extends not just to the ECHR, but beyond that to social and economic rights.
Joanna Cherry
The hon. Gentleman is clearly desperate to get his oar in, so I will give way.
Alberto Costa
The hon. and learned Lady raises some important issues, but she is pre-judging what the Secretary of State for Justice might bring before the House. It might well be a beefed-up human rights regime that the Scottish people will want.
Joanna Cherry
It is hard to take that seriously. Since we have been in the House, we have, through the judicious questioning of Ministers, established that one of their main concerns about the Human Rights Act is the fear they should have to take account of—that is all the Act says—the decisions of the Strasbourg Court. Given that they fear having to take account of European and international norms, I can only assume they want to replace the Act with a considerably watered-down version of the ECHR and the Act. That is merely a logical deduction.
I wonder if I might give way to the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David), on the Labour Front Bench, who wished to intervene earlier.
Joanna Cherry
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for drawing that to my attention. I would be delighted to take that intervention. Will the hon. Gentleman, whom I believe is a lawyer of sorts, tell us and the people of Scotland why he thinks it acceptable for all Scottish MPs to be excluded from the Joint Committee?
Alberto Costa
It is important that we have sensible lawyers on the Committee. The hon. and learned Lady keeps stating that human rights are not a reserved matter, but they are a very obvious reserved matter. That is my point.
Joanna Cherry
I am sure viewers in Scotland and everyone reading Hansard tomorrow will be interested to hear that the hon. Gentleman thinks it acceptable to exclude every elected representative of the Scottish electorate from a Joint Committee whose purpose is to scrutinise Bills for human rights compliance across the UK.