Early Parliamentary General Election

Debate between Jo Swinson and Maria Caulfield

Wednesday 4th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

I want to say thank you to the MPs in different parts of the House who worked so hard on the Bill that we all passed tonight. It is that cross-party working—putting party interest to one side and putting the national interest first—that the country expects of us. In particular, those colleagues on the Conservative Benches who have stuck to their principles and done what they think is right should be commended for that. The way that they have been treated has been shameful.

I am intrigued that as a result of the House of Commons saying clearly that we will not countenance crashing out of the EU with no deal, the Prime Minister’s response is that this somehow messes up his plan. It is as if it is news to him that the House of Commons does not want a no-deal exit. Was he not paying attention on the previous occasions that we voted to say that there should not be a no-deal exit? Is he seriously saying that the extent of his plan was to try to bully the EU and that he could get a good deal only by threatening that we would leave without a deal? Because if that is the extent of his plan, it is not very well thought through.

[Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady confirm that if there was a general election, the Liberal Democrats would put in their manifesto a pledge to revoke article 50?

[Jo Swinson]

It should be no surprise to the hon. Lady that the Liberal Democrats want to stop Brexit. We have been crystal clear on stopping Brexit. For all our different views in different parts of the House about that, I do not think that anyone can accuse us of not being straightforward about where we stand.

On the negotiation, the Prime Minister—

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [Lords]

Debate between Jo Swinson and Maria Caulfield

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Tuesday 1st May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

I rise to speak briefly in support of various amendments, including amendment 21, which would remove the Henry VIII powers. It has become an unfortunate hallmark of this Government that they have sought to put far too much power in Ministers’ hands. If anything, the whole “take back control” thing should be in the direction of Parliament and the representatives of the people, not to Ministers, with decisions therefore undergoing less scrutiny. I very much support amendment 21 on that basis.

I am sure that shortly the House will hear from the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle), who tabled new clause 18, which I very much support. I understand that my support was communicated to the Public Bill Office, but unfortunately my name was not added to the amendment paper. I wanted to put on record the fact that that communication had been sent. My right hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Sir Vince Cable) advocated the change in the new clause during our time in coalition, but it was one of those things that was blocked by our coalition partners, who claimed that it would somehow add to regulatory burdens and so would not be possible. I am delighted to support that new clause today.

On new clause 12, which was tabled by the hon. Members for Oxford East (Anneliese Dodds) and for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman), it is absolutely sensible that, just as we have a public register of beneficial ownership for companies, the same requirements should apply to trusts, given that we know how often trusts are used in a way that is conducive to money laundering. I understand that there are concerns about some individuals who may be vulnerable, but a better way to deal with that would be to carve out specific exemptions for such individuals, rather than go in the other direction, with the assumption being secrecy. It is about what the default is, and transparency very much ought to be the default, particularly given the widespread evidence of the use of trusts for the sheltering of wealth and therefore as cover for shady activities.

Finally, I wish to talk about the Companies House issues raised by new clause 13, because I was formerly the Minister in charge of Companies House, which tries to do a good job, albeit not with significant resources. Some of the changes that have come in—such as the move to do much more online, thereby getting rid of the paper trail caused by requiring every single company registration to be sent in on paper—are positive and often work well. I speak as somebody who used the Companies House service to set up a company when I was out of Parliament.

I wish to see the process remain simple, straightforward and low cost so that it is easy for people to set up new companies. However, it strikes me that, in that move to online, we have opportunities to undertake many more checks in a more cost-effective way than would have been possible under the paper-based system that existed before. As the hon. Member for Oxford East pointed out, we can have innovations such as drop-down menus which we are familiar with on so many different websites that we interact with in other spheres of life. We can therefore design into the system many of the checks that need to be done.

For addresses to be entered, we could have a simple checking process against the postcode address file. Anyone in this Chamber who does online shopping—I confess that I have, on occasion, done it myself—knows that it is just not possible to enter an address that is not a straightforwardly understood UK address, which is part of the postcode address file. There are therefore lots of good opportunities for Companies House to update its system so that it is much more adept—still in a cost-effective way—at identifying the small proportion of registrations, out of the large number of companies that register with Companies House, that require enforcement activity. Being able to do that in a risk-averse manner, as well as, no doubt, dealing with other patterns of registrations that might end up needing to be investigated would certainly be helpful. Over time, no doubt, tools could be developed to improve the risk assessment process.

[Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is making some good points. Currently, companies have to pay a nominal fee to register. On the types of registration that she is talking about and the in-depth detail that will need to be considered, has she done any work on the sort of fee that companies will be looking to pay?

[Jo Swinson]

I welcome the hon. Lady’s intervention. Basically, I am talking about making changes to the system in a cost-effective way. We are talking about system changes to multiple transactions, which, as I have said, are hardly groundbreaking in terms of online systems that exist in other spheres. I am talking about having access to these databases that already exist. Over time, intelligence-led risk profiling would also make sense. It is not about saying that for every company registration there needs to be an incredibly cumbersome process; it is about saying that measures could be taken in a fairly cost-effective way to use the technology and the ability that we now have—while things are being registered online—to identify where the problems are, in much the same way that when we enter a company name with one of those 135 sensitive words, a flag goes up, and it will be looked at by some human eyes. We could certainly have that system in place with a wider set of parameters without impinging on the general efficiency of the system, which no Member would want.