Early Parliamentary General Election

Debate between Jo Swinson and Kevin Brennan

Monday 28th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

I will make some progress and then give way.

We believe that the best way to do this is to put a specific Brexit deal to the public for a final say in a people’s vote. We have been leading the campaign for a people’s vote for three and a half years. We stood in the 2017 election on a manifesto that argued for a people’s vote and we have laid amendments for a people’s vote 17 times in this House, including an amendment to the Queen’s Speech last week.

The official Opposition have refused to back wholeheartedly a people’s vote—in fact, 19 Labour MPs voted for the Prime Minister’s deal last week. When it comes to the cause of remaining in the EU and of stopping Brexit, the Labour party has not delivered. We have put our best efforts in, but so far the House has not yet backed them in sufficient numbers.

[Kevin Brennan]

Not all the hon. Lady’s MPs have always been so unequivocal on this: the hon. Member for Streatham (Chuka Umunna) voted in favour of article 50, although he never tells the House that. I voted against it.

Why does the hon. Lady believe that a general election, using an electoral system that her party, like me, has always thought does not deliver a fair result, will solve this issue, rather than sticking to the point that we should be seeking a referendum? She could end up delivering a hard Brexit on only 38% of the vote, not 51%.

[Jo Swinson]

I always welcome any converts to the cause of electoral reform.

[Kevin Brennan]

I’m not a convert!

[Jo Swinson]

Or indeed long-standing supporters.

We are looking for the best way to protect our constituents and our place in the European Union. But MPs should not kid themselves that, by hanging on, there is somehow going to be a different outcome.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 20th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

I certainly agree that that would be a particular risk to British business. I wonder whether my hon. Friend might also agree that another risk to British business would be on the question of whether or not Britain left the EU.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Has the Minister seen the recent campaign by the Union of Construction, Allied Trades and Technicians about the activities of umbrella companies, where workers are often having to pay for their own holiday pay through deductions and also national insurance employer contributions. What action is she going to take to ensure that job security and workers’ security is increased by acting on umbrella companies?

[Jo Swinson]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. Work is already being undertaken by the Treasury on the tax-specific issue of what happens with umbrella companies. He may be aware that last month my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary announced an employment status review so that we can look in more detail at the different types of employment status and at how that system is working, between worker and employer, and with the use of self-employed contracts and umbrella companies. We are looking forward to the results of that review, which will be covering these issues.

Procedure Committee Reports

Debate between Jo Swinson and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 13th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan]

I do. Further than that, it can also lead to opportunities to broadcast through the more conventional media. For example, as some hon. Members will know, yesterday in Welsh questions I asked the Welsh Secretary to ask the Prime Minister, when he was sitting next to her, to make sure that the Welsh flag was flying over No. 10 Downing street this weekend, just as the flag of St George flew last year during the World cup, to acknowledge the achievements of the Welsh rugby team. After Prime Minister’s questions I was invited on to a phone-in on Radio Wales on which there was a very lively discussion about this proposition. By five o’clock in the evening the Prime Minister had quite rightly agreed that the flag could be flying, and I give him credit for that. So, very quickly, Twitter, conventional media and the use of this Chamber altogether were involved in getting a result for constituents. I think that is a good example of how this technology can be beneficial.

[Jo Swinson]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Kevin Brennan]

I will give way for the last time because I had not intended to take up my full time.

[Jo Swinson]

I am very grateful. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that although Twitter can certainly be useful for broadcasting, the real value of that kind of interaction is that it is not solely about broadcasting, with MPs sending out messages to constituents, but that it allows two-way communication and can really engage people in the political process?

[Kevin Brennan]

I just about heard the hon. Lady over the twittering of her colleagues at the Bar. She is absolutely right. I was about to make that point, but I will not do so in the interests of brevity, because she has made it for me.

I wrote an article, alongside the hon. Member for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray), in Total Politics magazine a few months ago in which we debated these issues. I think I made it clear in that article that I respect and understand where he is coming from. Like other right hon. and hon. Government Members who have spoken about the issue, he wants to maintain the reputation of the House for the quality of its debates and to ensure that our debates do not descend into a simple parade of read-out speeches. I agree that it would be the death of debate in the House if that happened, but their fears are misplaced.

One can embrace and use such technology and such devices while enlivening and enhancing our debates by bringing in information—yes, from outside, but what is wrong with that? If Ministers can get in-flight refuelling from the officials’ box, why cannot Back Benchers get in-flight refuelling electronically during their speeches if a useful fact can be drawn from outside? I see nothing wrong in being able to draw on all the expertise and information that is available from outside the Chamber.

In our exchange of articles, the hon. Gentleman made some very interesting points, but I will end by simply saying that there is nothing new in political communication in trying to get a message across in a pithy, memorable way, as Twitter enables us to do. In fact, I think that it was a certain Winston Churchill who said:

“Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.”—[Official Report, 20 August 1940; Vol. 364, c. 1167.]

If that statement was issued as a tweet, it would leave 66 of the 140 characters available on Twitter still to play with. That goes to show that those who want to fight the onslaught of technology on the beaches will find that the tide is turning against them.