Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate between Jo Swinson and Greg Mulholland

Tuesday 18th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

The definition is as set out in the Bill. Where a pub is directly managed, it does not meet the definition of a tied pub. I hope that gives the hon. Lady the reassurance she seeks.

As I have said, the Government have listened and recognised that the largest number of concerns originate at the end of the market with the largest pub companies, which is why we will focus the pubs code adjudicator on those companies. We recognise that there are concerns about other parts of the market, but clearly the House can return to those issues in future if it so wishes. We think that focusing the adjudicator’s attention in that way will resolve the vast majority of the issues that we have identified in the market.

We have listened to the concerns about smaller pub companies and family brewers. Of course, later this afternoon we will discuss another issue about which hon. Members from various parties have expressed strong views. It is clear from the number of hon. Members who have put their name to new clause 2 that there is a strong desire in the House for the statutory code to go further and to introduce the market rent only, or MRO, option.

We ran a consultation on that whole issue. As I pointed out in Committee, and as was said on Second Reading, it was one of the most popular consultations the Department has run in a very long time.



It received a huge number of responses because tenants, individuals and campaign groups take a great interest in the issue. Many representations were made on whether there should be a market rent only option and there was support from many quarters for that approach, but we recognise that there could be uncertain outcomes from such an approach. We would not want unintended consequences to harm the sector and the people we are trying to protect—

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Jo Swinson]

I will finish my sentence, then I will give way to my hon. Friend, who has such a strong record of campaigning in this area.

We recognise that many hon. Members worry that the pub companies need the very real threat of tenants going free of tie before they will offer their tenants a good tied deal. I can commit today that the Government will bring forward amendments in the other place to respond to this. Following the many Select Committee reports and the campaigning by my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) and others in all parties in the House, we have listened to those strong representations and we plan to add to the Bill a power to introduce a market rent only option after two years if a review concludes that the measures have not delivered sufficiently for tied tenants.

[Greg Mulholland]

I thank my hon. Friend for all the work she has done. I will respond to that last point when I make my speech. She commented on the popularity of the consultation; two thirds of all who responded backed the market rent only option. None supported what the Government are proposing—a parallel rent assessment—so what was the point of the consultation?

[Jo Swinson]

The point of a consultation is to explore the issues and, if necessary, to make changes to the Government’s proposals in response. That is exactly what we have done. The parallel rent assessment responds to some of the concerns expressed in the consultation about the initial ideas that we had outlined. It is right that the Government should be flexible enough to respond to a consultation. If the Government go into a consultation with a set of plans and come out of the consultation with exactly the same set of plans, that means either that the plans were perfect—sometimes that may be the case—or that the Government refuse to listen. That was the point of the consultation on this issue.

My hon. Friend makes the point that there was great support in the consultation for a market rent only option. He is right. The Government recognise that. Although I appreciate that he will be disappointed that that will not culminate in the Government accepting his new clause 2, it gives a great fillip to campaigners who have worked on this issue and shows that the Government are serious. We think that the parallel rent assessment approach that we have outlined will deliver the “no worse off” principle, which we should all be able to agree is what we want for tenants. We will make sure that with the further power, the market rent only option is still on the table if, for any reason, the parallel rent assessment proposal does not deliver the intended outcome.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and Greg Mulholland

Thursday 5th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

Two hundred and three MPs across this House now back the solution proposed by the Select Committee on Business, Innovation and Skills to pubco overcharging: the market rent only option. Will the Department do the right thing this time, back the Select Committee, deal with this crony capitalism and listen to the voice of small business? Both the Federation of Small Businesses and the Forum of Private Business support our approach.

[Jo Swinson]

My hon. Friend has been a stalwart campaigner on this issue, which, as he rightly points out, is of great interest to Members on both sides of the House and to the Select Committee. He will be aware that we undertook a consultation earlier this year, and we are reviewing the responses. He is also right to highlight the important contribution that organisations such as the Federation of Small Businesses have been able to make in putting forward further research reports. We hope to be able to publish that kind of information very shortly so that more people will be able to look at the responses.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and Greg Mulholland

Thursday 18th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

It has now been confirmed that the chief executive of the British Beer and Pub Association, the lobbyist for the large pub companies, made two false statements to the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee and said on television that the Government had figures for pub closures, which they do not. The opponents of much needed reform are conducting a campaign of misinformation. What assurances can I get from the Minister that the claims being made, which are simply not backed up by evidence, will not be taken into consideration when the decision is made?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson)]

My hon. Friend, who has been a strong campaigner on this issue, will know that the Government have conducted a consultation on the proposed statutory adjudicator and code for pubs, which has had more than 1,100 written responses, while we have had more than 7,000 responses to the online survey. Clearly, ploughing through and analysing all that information is taking a little time. He raises concerns about the issues with the Select Committee, but obviously Select Committees can ask further questions of witnesses, if they have concerns. I am happy to meet him, however, to discuss his concerns further.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and Greg Mulholland

Monday 28th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

3. What steps he is taking to improve public understanding of benefits available for people with (a) a hidden disability and (b) other forms of disability.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

5. What steps he has taken to improve public understanding of benefits available for people with (a) a hidden disability and (b) other forms of disability.