EU Charter of Fundamental Human Rights

Jo Swinson Excerpts

Thursday 12th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

I have listened to the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds), and my concern about this whole debate is that it seems that, somehow or other, there is a universality about human rights, without reference to democracy in individual countries. The question I have to ask is: how do we define what a human right is?

It is not so simple. I believe in human rights; I believe in the manner in which we legislate. However, we are already having a massive debate in the House of Commons about the Human Rights Act 1998, and about the commission that has been set up as a result of the coalition agreement. There are also massive questions being raised about the manner in which our judiciary is interpreting human rights—in relation to extradition, deportation, Abu Qatada, and so on. I have even noticed some Opposition Members showing an increased interest in whether human rights can be regarded as entirely generic and universal, when it is actually up to individual member states and individual Parliaments, based on the votes cast in general elections, to decide whether a particular human right is or has been contravened.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

rose—

[Mr Cash]

I will happily give way to the hon. Lady, because I am getting increasingly fed up with these people who continually assert, with their political correctness, that they know what a human right is. It is down to Parliament, based on what is decided by the voters in general elections, to determine those questions. It is a matter of law, not just some generic universality. I will be the first to fight for habeas corpus or trial by jury. What worries me is all these generic expressions—I will come to that in the middle of my speech—and this whole concept, which is promoting more and more generic human rights creep.

[Jo Swinson]

I sometimes wonder whether it is better not to encourage the hon. Gentleman, but I want to challenge him on universality, because I believe, as do many others, in the universality of human rights, as have been signed up to by our Government through the United Nations conventions. Does he really think that we in this country have no role in arguing and campaigning for changes abroad, and that if, for example, even a democratic country elsewhere in the world decided that it would persecute Christians—torturing them, and so on—just because of their beliefs, that should be of no concern to us whatever and that we should not try to change minds or persuade others to take action to change it?

[Mr Cash]

No, I do not. As a matter of fact, I have been very much personally involved in the Jubilee campaign, standing up for the rights of people in other countries who are being persecuted. Indeed, as the hon. Lady will know, I have also promoted the issue by forming the all-party group on water and sanitation in the third world. I stand absolutely 100% behind people’s rights in that regard. What worries me is when the whole thing is codified—as it is in the papers before us and the strategic plan—and interwoven with the universality matrix, and then buttressed by legal requirements. Therefore, when I hear the Minister saying, “Well, we will exercise the veto as and when it is appropriate”—if I can put it in generic terms—I simply do not believe that to be a realistic way of dealing with the issue.

This is another example of the European Union engaging in European creep on a monumental scale. I am not against the individual defence of people in relation to human rights questions, and there are many things that crop up in the European strategic framework and action plan that I would strongly support in an individual context. What worries me is the universality, not only because of the panoramic view that is taken of all these matters, but because of the panoramic way in which it will be applied in practice, headed by the European representative. This is essentially a practical question.

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[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

I rise to support the motion and the documents before us. It is worth remembering the origins of the European Union and its predecessor organisations in the aftermath of world war two. The original body was set up not only to promote peace and security across western Europe, but as a result of the appalling human rights violations seen in that war, with the aim of ensuring that such things could never happen again. Obviously, it has not always been successful, but the over the decades it has been a strong guardian of human rights through its role in international negotiations and through the incentive—the carrot—offered of potential EU membership, which has encouraged many countries to make progress and take steps to improve their human rights records. Of course more can always be done, and it is right to recognise that there are problems within EU member states. Indeed, as the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) said, we in the UK should not be complacent but should maintain an ever-vigilant approach to improving human rights in this country, too.

Member states do a lot individually, but we can do even more with the strength of 27 nations acting together. That is why I support the historic opportunity to further the aims of UK foreign policy. The action plan and the creation of the special representative have already been approved by 26 member states and I urge the House to support the motion today, so that we can also do that.

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[Jo Swinson]

I very much welcome the strength of the language in the strategic framework, particularly the emphasis on the centrality and universality of human rights in EU foreign policy. Like the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds), I think that the mainstreaming of this question across different policy areas is important, as it means that human rights are not dealt with in some sort of isolated box. The ability of the EU to take an active position—the special representative will certainly help in that regard—is incredibly important, particularly in the context of recent events during the Arab spring and in many countries around the world that still have grave human rights problems. The action plan is comprehensive and I will touch on a few specific areas.

Section 11, on trade, is helpful on the question of mainstreaming and includes in its list of actions one, (f), which states that we must:

“Work towards ensuring that solid human rights criteria are included in an international arms trade treaty.”

I know that the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) and my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) were at the negotiations that are ongoing in New York. Indeed, I think we are soon to have an Adjournment debate on the topic—unfortunately, I am unable to stay, as I need to catch a train to get back to Scotland this evening. It would be helpful for the House to hear how those negotiations are progressing in the context of the human rights criteria that we so much want to be a strength of that treaty.

I also welcome sections 13 and 18 of the action plan on entrenching human rights in counter-terrorism activities and providing effective support to human rights defenders, which was an issue raised by the hon. Member for Islington North. In 2010, along with the noble Lord Judd, I visited Chechnya to see the human rights situation there. We were both struck, as the report we produced made very clear, by what we experienced and witnessed. We spoke to people who were victims of human rights abuses and heard about disappearances, assassinations, murders and violence where there was no proper judicial process—cases would be opened and not followed through, so people would not be brought to justice and the security forces would perpetrate the abuses. It was clear that that worsened the security situation and in some ways created a breeding ground for the terrorism that the security forces were trying to repress. Human rights defenders play an important role in bringing abuses to the attention of the wider community, and some of the points in the plan, particularly those on temporary havens for human rights defenders when they are under particular threat, are matters on which we could do more within the European Union.

I also warmly welcome section 16, which is about the death penalty and what is being done to work for its abolition in other countries. I particularly welcome the suggestion of targeted campaigns to try to get the retentionist countries to change their minds. Next year, we will have the world congress against the death penalty; it would be wonderful if some countries agreed at that point to abolish it. Can the Minister update us on any recent discussions? The Government always say that they raise the issue in discussions with other countries, and I am certain that that is true, but we also want to see action and some indication of whether progress is likely with some of our counterparts around the world.

On that point, I warmly welcome the recent decision that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills has taken on export controls on the drug propofol, which can be used in executions in the United States. That comes on the back of a similar decision about sodium thiopental in 2010. If we are serious about opposing the death penalty, it is vital that we do not make it easy for other countries to implement it through our sales to them. Two years ago, the UK’s leadership ultimately led to a EU-wide ban, which shows how we are stronger working with all the states together.

I mentioned earlier in my intervention on the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) the section on freedom of religious belief. We are lucky to enjoy a great degree of religious tolerance in our society. Given the tensions in South Sudan and Sudan, the persecution of Christians in Iraq, the Baha’i in Iran, the treatment of Sikhs in India, about which many of my constituents have expressed concern, and the host of other countries around the world where people do not have the freedom to hold the faith they choose and to worship in peace without fear of violence, that is a hugely important section in the plan.

I do not endorse the concerns that were raised about competence creep. The Minister has reassured us absolutely on that point. This is about enhancing UK influence, not reducing or constraining it. It is about 27 states agreeing on something and it therefore having the agreement of our Government and this place. An additional voice can only be a good thing. I warmly welcome the motion and the documents and I hope that the House will support them today.