5G Masts: Greater Manchester

Debate between Jim McMahon and Julia Lopez

Wednesday 13th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[Julia Lopez]

It sounds as though my hon. Friend has some very hard-working councillors. I commend them for their efforts, but they should not have to play whack-a-mole; that is very time-intensive and likely unnecessary.

As Minister, I am trying to establish the extent of the problem. I know it is an issue in pockets of the country—the number of Greater Manchester MPs here today is testimony to that. Although this debate is about a specific area, there is also a challenge in relation to the whole area. Reference was made to the private Member’s Bill tabled by the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) and to specific issues with the way the market operates in the Kingston upon Hull area. It seems that there are also particular challenges in Greater Manchester with specific operators. I am holding a roundtable with colleagues next week, I believe, and I hope we will get a better sense of how geographically widespread this issue is, and whether we need to take action against particular providers or deal with specific issues on the ground, particularly in Hull. When I meet Ofcom next week, I hope to discuss this issue in some detail.

I will set out the general policy aim, and then the next steps that we will take to address communities’ concerns. It is absolutely right that they are addressed, because this is not what we want to happen. There is an overall and well-supported policy aim on connectivity, and we do not want the broad support for the connectivity agenda to be undermined by bad practice. As the House knows, reliable, fast digital connectivity is vital for the prosperity of our country. We are working hard to ensure communities across the UK can get those services at prices they can afford.

That is not just about connectivity needs now; increasingly, healthcare will be delivered in a technologically enabled way, more education will be provided in that way and so will economic opportunities. For me, it is important that we ensure every part of the country has fantastic connectivity. I do not want a digital divide to emerge.

The hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton said that this issue is disempowering for communities, but that is precisely the opposite of our intention. The policy intention is to empower communities by ensuring they have the infrastructure they need. I do not want them to feel that this is leading to a deterioration of the overall amenity of their areas.

[Jim McMahon]

I think there is agreement on the need for the roll-out of digital connectivity; that is a welcome investment. The frustration for local people and the industry is that there is not co-ordination across Government. I had a call earlier today with a provider that would love nothing more than to install the devices in the lamp post infrastructure that is already in place on the streets, but cannot do so because it cannot get an agreement here or through the local authority. That would seem very logical. We need to look at charging points for electric vehicles and wireless connectivity, and that requires joined-up thinking from the Government on making best use of what we already have.

[Julia Lopez]

That was an interesting intervention. I have never discussed the idea of sharing lamp posts or infrastructure of that nature. Not long after becoming Minister in this policy area, I put through the Product Security and Telecommunications Infrastructure Act 2022, whose intention was to make it easier to share existing infrastructure, to crack open some of the telecoms monopolies and allow new companies and new entrants to provide connectivity. Community connectivity was falling behind because of that monopoly interest, and ultimately there has been a much faster roll-out.

The whole intention is for that roll-out to be done, not through new poles, new masts and all the rest—notwithstanding the fact that they will be required in some areas—but through much better sharing of existing infrastructure. I will take away the point raised by the hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton about other types of infrastructure.

[Jim McMahon]

The Minister is being very generous in taking interventions. On that point, the Act in itself was a good piece of work, with the exception of the guidance that followed, which essentially allowed the sharing requirement to be one of request and then consideration, rather than requiring it to happen. The Government should be more directive and say, “No, if it’s there, you ought to use it together.”, rather than just asking for people to have a conversation about it.

[Julia Lopez]

I do not want to mislead the House in any way. My understanding is that there are requirements on some companies, particularly Openreach, for infrastructure sharing. That is not universal, and we may come to review that in the future. I want to set out the overall success levels, because I do not want this debate to be about only the negative side. Ultimately, the 2022 Act has driven roll-out, but, as I alluded to, it is just that there are particular problems in particular geographical areas where I think we need to be doing something, whether that is ensuring that infrastructure in Hull is better shared or addressing the particular operators acting in a way that is certainly not the intention of the code and guidance.

In 2019, 6% of UK premises had access to gigabit-capable broadband. That is now 81%, so we can see there is a massive difference in connectivity. We all understand from the pandemic just how important that connectivity is to people’s life chances. It is effectively akin to a key utility, and we want to ensure that people are not disadvantaged by poor connectivity. I am very proud of that achievement, and we must ensure that infrastructure deployment can continue at pace.

We know that the legislative framework has been supportive of that, and we want operators to be able to install infrastructure quickly, but that is not some kind of one-way street. We must ensure that operators understand that that is not without restriction. The legislation rightly recognises that there can be an impact of network deployment on communities and the environment, and there is a balance to be had and rules to which telecoms companies ought to adhere. Good operators understand that, but I think there is an issue with bad actors and bad examples, which we are very keen to drill down into.

The hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton will be aware of the legislative framework—he spoke about it in some detail. It ensures that the vital infrastructure can be deployed quickly, while ensuring that communities can have their say. That is supported by best practice guidance on where new infrastructure should be placed and how best to limit the impact on the landscape and our streets. The legislation also ensures that either Ofcom or the local planning authority can take enforcement action when either the regulations or the planning rules are not being adhered to. Local planning authorities have powers to take enforcement action where they believe planning regulations are contravened.

I understand that has already happened and is actively underway in some parts of Greater Manchester. I think there is a piece of work to do about helping local authorities to understand how and when they can push back on some of those applications. From the feedback that I have had from local authorities, some of those applications are being put forward by planning consultants rather than the companies themselves, so they do not use that local knowledge or have that accountability.

I am conscious of time, so I will just set out some of the extra steps that we will be taking. As I mentioned, the policy aim now is to ensure that there is better infrastructure. On Monday, I will be meeting Melanie Dawes, the chief executive of Ofcom, to ask that her officials work closely with mine to bring about a swift resolution to some of the challenges raised in this debate and previously. That follows a letter from the Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham (Michelle Donelan), which asked Ofcom to set out the conditions under which they would take enforcement actions if the regulations are not being adhered to. As I suggested, I will also be holding a roundtable for concerned colleagues on 25 March, and the hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton is very welcome to join me. I look forward to hearing his constituents’ concerns in more detail, and to picking up some of the issues that he raised that we do not have time to go into today.

We will be working closely with the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities to support local planning authorities, exploring what extra steps are needed, and I will write this week to operators and their representative bodies to ensure that they are aware how seriously we are taking this and what we expect them to do to minimise unnecessary infrastructure. I hope that provides some assurance on the immediate next steps, but I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are listening to the concerns raised in this House and we are open to slightly tougher steps if we are dissatisfied with progress. I am conscious of time, so I will wrap up.

Question put and agreed to.