Severn Bridges

Debate between Jessica Morden and Mark Williams

Tuesday 31st January 2017 Westminster Hall

[Jessica Morden]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This is a critical stage to get this right for the future. Given the inflexibility of the 1992 legislation, it is important that we scrutinise the plans now and future-proof them so that we will not need to unpick things in years to come, for example because we had not thought about vehicle categories. That is a very important point. We must be able to shape the new regime for the benefit of our constituents and businesses. I agree that we will want to get that right.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this debate again; she has had many debates on the topic and I have made the same observation, but I want to say it again. Does she agree that the need to get this right for the business community extends way beyond south Wales to the west of Wales, mid-Wales and the north as well? It is critical that we get this right for businesses right across the country.

[Jessica Morden]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; this issue has ramifications for the whole economy of Wales, in south Wales and beyond, including his constituency. I thank him for being here today and for making that point.

Getting more clarity about the direction of travel is important for my constituents who commute, the businesses that do business across the bridges and those who work on the bridges. In recent years those people have had to suffer the highest toll in the UK, and commuters have just had to absorb the annual increases, however unfair they are. Constituents have had to turn down job offers because the toll is equivalent to nearly an hour on the minimum wage. Just this morning I received an email from a constituent, who said:

“The tolls add a considerable amount to the cost of travel to Bristol, where a lot of attractive jobs for young graduates like myself exist. Many of my friends who have graduated from university recently and are looking for a job fail to look at Bristol because in my opinion, the toll gives…the impression that Bristol is out of reach, even though in actual fact, travel time is not much more than to Cardiff.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Jessica Morden]

I thank my hon. Friend. He anticipates a point that I was going to make later in my speech about cross-border travel and the capacity of our rail services for those who commute to Bristol and beyond, which is clearly inadequate. When we are looking at tolls, we need to consider the wider picture and take a more holistic view of our transport networks.

Businesses, especially those in logistics and the provision of services, are trying to compete with firms in the south-west that do not have to factor in the toll, and they are losing out. Some businesses in my constituency are hit by up to half a million pounds a year, which just has to come off the bottom line. At present there are no effective discounts or incentives for off-peak travel. The arguments have been well rehearsed over many years, but it is worth reiterating just how hard people have been hit and therefore how strongly they feel about the issue.

The Severn crossings are a key link in our transport and economic infrastructure as part of the M4 corridor—the gateway to Wales—which allows access to markets in the UK, but also as part of the E30 route. As has been said many times before, the Severn tolls have been a tax on Welsh business and commuters. I recognise that the Government have gone some way towards acknowledging that. They announced in January that tolls could be reduced to £3 for cars and vans and £10 for lorries when the concession ends, but the message from many of my constituents and businesses is that the Government are not going far enough.

I want to thank the many constituents, businesses and groups, such as the Freight Transport Association, that have worked with me, other hon. Members and the Welsh Affairs Committee over the years on this campaign. I also thank the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones), who attended the Severn bridges summit that I organised with the FTA here last year, so that the people affected could put their views to him directly.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) mentioned, we should also pay tribute to the maintenance and toll staff, who are incredibly hard-working and knowledgeable about the Severn bridges. I hope that the Minister will ensure that they have a key voice in future decisions, because they have the expertise that we need and that we must keep. I urge him to ensure that there are regular meetings with management and staff so that they are fully informed of announcements and discussions. We should acknowledge that it is a sensitive time.

On tolling, the Government have announced that they will seek to reduce the tolls and that they will use the toll revenue for operations, maintenance and debt repayment. The Minister will be aware that there is a strong consensus in the Welsh Assembly, the Welsh Government and among many users of the bridges that the tolls should be scrapped altogether, not least because removing them would boost productivity in Wales by up to £100 million, as a recent Welsh Government study has shown. Tolls represent an unfair tax. In an ideal world the UK Government would pay for the maintenance, not the people and businesses of Wales, particularly after such a lengthy period with such eye-watering tolls.

Scrapping the tolls would be a symbolic move, especially with the uncertainty around Brexit. It would be helpful to hear from the Government why they have not included that option in the consultation. I am sure that many people would like to back it. I hope that the consultation is a true one, not just a paper exercise, and that the Government have an open mind on it.

[Mr Mark Williams]

The hon. Lady touches on a point of principle there. The people of Wales pay taxes the same as everyone else. That money goes towards road repairs right across the country, so why should the people of Wales in effect pay twice?

[Jessica Morden]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, which I will come to later when I talk about the debt that the Government say they have to recoup. That is interesting, given the money they have recouped in the past from other sources.

The Minister will say that halving the tolls will allow an assessment of the impact on traffic. The traffic using the bridges has increased and, as recent media coverage shows, many people are choosing to relocate from Bristol and the south-west to Newport and Monmouthshire as a lifestyle choice—a very good choice, as it is an absolutely wonderful place to live. In response, the UK and Welsh Governments need to work on a holistic transport plan that includes the metro, and the Government must help to make up the shortfall from the loss of EU funds. While I am being parochial, the Government should support a new station bid for Magor and provide greater rail capacity, especially on the commuter services from Newport and the Severn tunnel junction, which have been dubbed the “sardine express”—I have had debates on that in the past—and the Welsh Government should look at the matters that are devolved.

Severn Bridges (Tolls)

Debate between Jessica Morden and Mark Williams

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jessica Morden]

I agree with my hon. Friend wholeheartedly. As I remember, it took a joke on “Gavin & Stacey” and the approach of the Ryder cup for things to get to where they are now. It was like pulling teeth trying to get the decision taken to accept card payments. I will come back to that point, but I agree that we need to consider free-flow technology, which would help the congestion in the run-up to the plazas.

Over the years, various Ministers have argued in their responses to debates like this that the impact of the tolls on the Welsh economy is not clear, but we know from the Welsh Government’s 2011 report that the total cost to businesses and consumers, once VAT is taken into account, is in excess of £80 million a year. Furthermore, they came to the tentative conclusion that removing the tolls could boost the Welsh economy to the tune of around £107 million.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this debate, and on talking about the Welsh economy as a whole. When the Federation of Small Businesses undertook a significant inquiry, “The Severn Bridge: Taking its toll on the Economy?”, it did not restrict its work to the economy in south Wales, but looked further west to Swansea, Carmarthenshire, Pembrokeshire and parts of my constituency, Ceredigion. Will the hon. Lady emphasise the effect of the tolls on the whole economy?

[Jessica Morden]

The hon. Gentleman is quite right. Although the effects are probably felt most keenly in my constituency and that of the hon. Member for Monmouth, the knock-on effect along the M4 corridor and beyond, and up towards places such as Ceredigion, is immense, particularly for businesses using that route.

Organophosphate Sheep Dip

Debate between Jessica Morden and Mark Williams

Wednesday 10th June 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered organophosphate sheep dip poisoning.

Although this is a short debate, it is certainly important for a constituent of mine and many others out there who attribute their chronic ill health to the use of sheep dip. I want to emphasise that I will be discussing events that happened in the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s. Since then, other sheep dip treatments have been developed, and the advice given to farmers has been improved to help minimise the risk of exposure to the chemicals. I do not want to anticipate the Minister’s reply this early in the debate, but I gently point out that as long as we continue carefully to regulate and review such products, what I am talking about relates to what happened in the past, or advice that was not given in the past.

I pay tribute to the Members in this place and the other House, journalists and, most importantly, campaigners—not least the Sheep Dip Sufferers Support Group—who have doggedly pursued the issue of organophosphate poisoning over the years. I called for this debate on this long-standing issue to give a voice to my constituent Stephen Forward from Undy, and to raise questions early in this new Parliament, so that we can take a fresh look at the matter and give impetus to the ongoing campaign, which continues to try to provide answers and resolution for the 500-plus affected people. Those 500 are just those identified by the campaign groups; they are sure that more people have been affected.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this important debate. I thank her for this opportunity to give voice to the concerns of one of my constituents, Mr Edward Harding, who would strongly assert that his exposure to sheep dip has left him unable to work for the past 15 years. He is now dependent on industrial injuries disablement benefit, which is at least Department for Work and Pensions acknowledgement that his poisoning has caused irreversible damage to his body.

[Jessica Morden]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for making an important point, and commend him on giving a voice to his constituent. The Department for Work and Pensions has acknowledged OP poisoning, but we are still waiting for other bodies to do the same. The matter was raised with me at the end of the previous Parliament by Stephen Forward. Over the years, many arguments have been made about whether people’s illnesses can be conclusively attributed to using sheep dip. I am clear that there is no doubt in Stephen’s case. Blood tests carried out at the poisons unit at Guy’s hospital prove it, and he is one of the few potential victims to have medical evidence to back up his claim.

Stephen started dipping sheep in 1979 at the age of 17, at a time when the then Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food had made yearly dips compulsory. Biannual dips became compulsory in 1984. The first time that Stephen helped his father with the dipping, some of the sheep collapsed. They were assured by the Government inspector, who had to be present under the system, that that had happened before and that the sheep would come round in a few minutes, but it was an indicator to Stephen of the strength of what they were using. As Stephen and others affected will tell you, it is difficult to dip sheep without getting covered in the solution, as well as inhaling and swallowing it. It is the nature of the process. Stephen would spend seven hours a day, twice a year dipping 350-plus sheep.

Almost immediately, Stephen started to get flu like symptoms which got progressively worse, eventually leading to chronic fatigue syndrome and physical problems that meant he could no longer work on the farm. He is also open about the mental health problems that he has developed, including depression and anxiety. His symptoms would always be worse the day after sheep dipping and he was often bedridden for weeks. He went to his GP several times—there is the separate issue of GPs’ awareness of the condition at the time—before reading in Farmers Weekly in 1991 that he could be suffering from OP poisoning, because the symptoms listed were identical to those that he had experienced for 13 years. The article suggested that people with such symptoms contact the poisons unit at Guy’s hospital for a blood test. A series of tests confirmed that Stephen was suffering from OP poisoning. By that stage, however, the window of opportunity for providing treatment had long since passed and he was suffering significant long-term effects.

The symptoms of OP poisoning have been devastating for Stephen. At 53 years old, he is unable to walk 30 yards and has not been able to work since 1996, and the effects have severely limited all aspects of his life. The poisoning has also given him sensitivity to medicines that might have been able to help. Stephen’s medical records relating to Guy’s hospital were lost by his GP—that appears to have happened to others in a similar situation—but through his dogged persistence he now has some copies directly from hospital. Others are not so lucky. As the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) mentioned, that information is crucial for those making claims for benefits such as employment and support allowance or the personal independence payment. As a result of hearing Stephen’s story, I attended a meeting in Parliament with the Sheep Dip Sufferers Support Group. The group is led by Tom Rigby, a constituent of my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), who initiated a moving meeting for sufferers and is involved in the campaign—although he is, of course, busy with another campaign today. At the meeting, dozens of farm workers told similar heartbreaking stories of ruined lives and health.

It is worth reiterating that compulsory dipping of sheep was reintroduced in 1976 by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to tackle sheep scab, a notifiable disease. The products used in the 1970s and onwards were stronger than previous products. They were single-dip products containing organophosphates and organochlorides, which were banned in 1984. Compulsory dipping did happen in the ’30s and ’40s, but farmers were never really told that the new chemicals might be dangerous and required better protective clothing to be worn, so farmers just carried on dipping in the same way that they always had. Concerns about the effects of organophosphate sheep dips on farmers have been raised since their inception, but they came to a head in the early ’90s as compulsory dipping was being phased out. It ceased to be compulsory in 1992.

OPs are toxic chemicals with known effects after repeat exposure. OP compounds were developed as chemical warfare agents, and a link exists between Gulf war illness in US troops and OP insecticides. As an aside, it was revealed just this week that British airlines are facing 17 individual legal claims of poisoning by toxic air, including organophosphates, circulating in aircraft cabins. As a result, Unite the union is calling for an inquiry on contaminated cabin air and whether it has been damaging to pilots and cabin crew.