Future of the NHS

Debate between Jeremy Corbyn and Matt Hancock

Thursday 23rd February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock (West Suffolk) (Ind)]

I rise to set out in this debate on the future of the NHS, with the experience of three years as Health Secretary, how we can build on the promise of healthcare that is free at the point of delivery for every single person in the United Kingdom. This is a promise that I hold dear in my heart and that my party has supported with enthusiasm throughout the NHS’s over 70-year history. In fact, the NHS has been run by Conservative-led Administrations for the majority of its time.

It is a joy to follow the hon. Member for Jarrow (Kate Osborne). A few of her comments were not quite right, but I can tell from what she said that she, like me and like the vast majority in this House, supports the principle of an NHS that is free at the point of use. As a Conservative, there are many reasons why I believe in that so strongly. I will set aside and not make the straight- forward political argument that no party in this country would ever get elected to power without steadfast support for the NHS. As Nigel Lawson put it, the NHS is the closest thing we have to a national religion, and that captures it about as well as we can. Over 75% of the public believe that the NHS is crucial to British society.

However, there are substantive reasons, as well as those purely political ones. The first is the importance of the efficiency and effectiveness of the delivery of healthcare—the nuts and bolts of why it is good to have a free-at-the-point-of-use healthcare system. According to 2019 figures, just before the pandemic, the proportion of GDP that we spent on healthcare in this country was just over 10%. In the United States, it is over 16%. In Germany and France, it is higher too, yet life expectancy is higher in the United Kingdom, showing that we deliver more effective healthcare, and a lot of that is because it is a universal service delivered free at the point of use.

The second argument, which is quite an unusual one that is not often made but is important especially to those whose heart beats to the right, is a pro-enterprise, pro-business one. Enterprise is the source of prosperity for any nation; a quick look at the history books demonstrates that that is where our prosperity comes from. We can start a business in the UK and employ somebody in the private sector without having to pay for healthcare, whereas in many countries around the world, one of the first costs for a new or growing business is healthcare for its employees. That is not necessary here. There is a pro-trade, pro-business argument for having an NHS free at the point of use.

Thirdly, there is the moral argument for having a universal healthcare system. It is impossible for any of us to know when we will need healthcare—it is impossible to know when we might have a condition or an accident that means we need healthcare. The NHS means that we, metaphorically, sit by each other’s bedsides and support each other in our hour of greatest need. That is why the public’s connection to the NHS, and certainly my connection to the NHS, is not just a question of policy; it is a deeply emotional connection. We are in the NHS at some of the best times in our life, such as when children are born, and some of the worst times in our life too. That provision being there for us when it really counts means that there is a moral case for universal healthcare provision, free at the point of use, that I hold dear too.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

I absolutely agree that there is a moral case for healthcare free at the point of need in our country—I absolutely support that. Does the right hon. Gentleman not think, though, that there is something immoral about the huge profits that are being made out of the NHS by private contractors that have been brought into it, when those profits that are paid to shareholders all over the world in the form of dividends would be better invested in the healthcare of people in this country?

[Matt Hancock]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Member for that intervention. I am not surprised that he agrees with what I said about the moral case for a universal healthcare system, nor that he makes the case against any use of profit in the NHS. I was going to come on to exactly that point, because it is bunkum to suggest that the NHS has ever in its history provided services without the use of private companies. That has happened throughout the long and proud history of the NHS, and it is absolutely vital to its functioning—always has been, always will be, under Governments of all stripes. I will come on to explain why.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Jeremy Corbyn and Matt Hancock

Wednesday 30th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, I absolutely will. We already look at the impact on the NHS, of course, but that will become more important as more and more people are vaccinated and, we hope, the correlation between cases and future hospitalisations, which is currently stable, starts to go down and there are fewer hospitalisations for every individual case. Obviously we should take that into account.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind) [V]]

As everyone knows, the vaccine is important and necessary, but we also know that the effects of corona have fallen disproportionately on the most vulnerable within our society. The World Health Organisation asked for special consideration to be given to those with disabilities, yet a wholly disproportionate number of the deaths that have occurred have been people with disabilities. Those with learning disabilities have often lost out on the support they would normally receive, and we have 1.5 million children facing mental health problems, if not crises, at the present time. Can the Secretary of State assure us that work will be done to support those with disabilities and, in particular, that work will be done and greater support given to young people and children who are suffering often quite profound mental health difficulties as a result of the stress of isolation that they have suffered over the past nine months?

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, of course. This has been looked into in great detail, and the clinical prioritisation includes those who are under 50 but are clinically vulnerable to the effects of covid-19. They come into the prioritisation in categories 4 and 6 alongside the over-70s and over-60s, taking into account precisely the sort of considerations that the right hon. Gentleman sets out.

Covid-19 Response

Debate between Jeremy Corbyn and Matt Hancock

Wednesday 22nd April 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

The target was set at 100,000 because that is what we estimated was needed—scientific advice was provided into that target—and it is what is practically achievable. As I said, we are ahead of our trajectory on capacity, but we need to make sure that demand increases. Increasing demand is about widening access to this testing. We did take scientific advice. I am not sure whether that came directly through the SAGE route or directly from Public Health England, but of course these decisions are based on the science.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

First, I want to pay tribute briefly to all those health workers, care workers, delivery workers, street cleaners and cleaners, and so many other groups all over the country, who are doing such an incredible job, together with all the volunteers, to deal with this crisis. It is an amazing moment in this country’s history. However, Parliament’s job is to hold the Government to account, so I have a simple question. The World Health Organisation indicated that there was a danger of an epidemic from coronavirus in January—it later declared this to be a pandemic. The WHO’s director general said, in terms, that the way to deal with it is by “test, test , test”, in order to ascertain the levels of infection across our society, but we did not do that. The Secretary of State came to the House in January to say that he was going to increase the amount of testing. This issue was raised with the Prime Minister on 24 February and again in a meeting we had in March, at which the Secretary of State was present. He told us then that the level of testing would increase, but it is still nowhere near the level that is necessary. Can he assure us that there is going to be a really rapid increase in the level and availability of testing, in order to get on top of this dreadful virus?

[Matt Hancock]

The development of testing has been at pace throughout this crisis, entirely contrary to the story told by the right hon. Gentleman. We were one of the first countries in the world to develop a test. We rapidly increased the number of tests, from 2,000 at the start of March to 10,000 during March—a fivefold increase—and it is now going up further. This is an area where we had our foot on the gas all the way through, because it is incredibly important.