Information Technology (NHS)

Debate between Jackie Doyle-Price and John Pugh

Tuesday 14th June 2011 Westminster Hall

[Jackie Doyle-Price]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. To be fair, those suppliers have acted extremely honourably with regard to their obligations under the contract. When it became clear that they could not deliver the software under Lorenzo because it was not fit for purpose, they took the honourable action and negotiated their way out. Such behaviour shows a lot about those suppliers. It is increasingly worrying that CSC in particular is finding itself in a monopoly position because it has acquired and strengthened its shareholding in iSOFT. Who we negotiate with in the future is a long-term worry.

I associate myself with the conclusions of my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk about when we should take a decision on this project. Is it time for an emperor’s new clothes moment, or are we going to continue throwing good money after bad in a project that is clearly not going to deliver?

[John Pugh]

Is it not enormously hard for parliamentarians to form a judgment on that when we are not party to the actual contractual details? We do not know what cancellation involves for the firm or for the development of the project.

[Jackie Doyle-Price]

That is a good point. I was coming on to say to the Minister that he must examine this matter with considerable rigour before deciding on the right course. The message that we got from the Department was that such contracts are complex, although it was rather unclear just how complex this one was. I urge the Minister to achieve maximum value for money because ultimately this is a lot of money that could have been spent on patient care rather than on delivering this programme.

My final point relates to how these big procurement projects should be managed. We have examined a number of them on the Public Accounts Committee. Too often we find examples of poor project management. Poor leadership is assigned to these projects, which then go on to spend incredibly large amounts of taxpayers’ money.

When Sir David Nicholson appeared before the Committee, he was unable to answer a number of questions that my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk put to him even though he has been the senior responsible owner of the project since 2006. Until the machinery of government can put in place good project management disciplines to deliver effective leadership, we will continue to spend a lot of money and to fail to deliver on the intended project. I hope that this is a lesson not just for the Department of Health but for the Government as a whole and especially the Cabinet Office as it looks at how it delivers these projects and puts in place good disciplines, so that this unhappy experience is not repeated.

Consumer Credit and Debt Management

Debate between Jackie Doyle-Price and John Pugh

Thursday 3rd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to speak in this debate and to follow the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy), who made her case with great passion, as I think all Members would agree. It is important that we consider the whole issue of indebtedness, which has become a plague on our country and will only get worse as time moves on. We all want appropriate measures in place to protect those who rely on credit from the activities of unscrupulous lenders. I bring some knowledge to this subject, having worked in a previous life as an adviser to the Financial Services Consumer Panel. We have long been concerned about the inadequacy of the current framework of consumer credit regulation, so now is clearly the appropriate time for change.

Although I fully support the objective behind the hon. Lady’s motion—ensuring that there is adequate regulatory protection for consumers and that regulators have adequate powers to intervene as appropriate—I am not sure whether the caps that she describes are necessarily the answer. However, it is appropriate that we consider the whole breadth of how credit is regulated as part of the credit review. We should leave no stone unturned in ensuring that the regulator has the appropriate tools and, more importantly, the appetite to take enforcement action where poor practice is identified. I was therefore happy to put my name to the amendment.

[John Pugh]

I assume that as the amendment has been tabled by Back Benchers to another Back Bencher’s motion, the Whips will take no part whatever in persuading people to vote for or against it. Am I right in making that assumption?