Spinal Cord Injuries

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown

Wednesday 4th September 2013 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Dr McCrea. I am pleased to see that the Minister is here for this debate on the important topic of continuing health care for spinal cord injured people. The all-party group on spinal cord injury has had some difficulty engaging with Ministers over the past two years. The Health Minister with responsibility for quality, Lord Howe, and more recently the Minister for Housing, the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk), have both refused to meet the group, which is very unfortunate.

The advantage of engagement is that it enables Ministers to understand better the needs and difficulties of individuals who have to deal with severe spinal cord injuries. Such individuals face great hardship and difficulty, and Ministers should at least be prepared to engage with them and hear what they have to say. I am sure that the Minister will do so today.

I first became aware of the difficulties faced by spinal cord injured people during my work as a practising personal injury solicitor before I came to the House about 12 years ago. I was particularly engaged with the Midlands Centre for Spinal Injury at the Robert Jones and Agnes Hunt orthopaedic hospital in Oswestry. Individuals were often admitted with severe spinal injuries from accidents, and the capacity of the—[Interruption.]

[Dr William McCrea (in the Chair)]

Order. I apologise to the hon. Gentleman, but I must suspend proceedings for a Division in the House.

Small Businesses

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown

Tuesday 7th September 2010 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to appear before you, Mrs Main. It has been a very interesting debate, so let me congratulate the hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) on securing it and on provoking such reflective comments.

The Minister and I discussed this difficult matter when I was in government, but the whole subject has now moved on. In the context of the international banking crisis, it was clear that one of the most traumatic problems for businesses of all types was securing lending or investment on a consistent basis. Over the past two to three years, we have heard massive exhortations about the banks from all parties. The former Chancellor, the present Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills have all made it clear that they are dissatisfied with the investment decisions that the banks have made. In our own constituencies, we are seeing businesses that are having great difficulties. If anything, the problem of securing investment from banks may be getting even worse. In the past, the Government have taken steps to address the issues. The enterprise finance guarantee scheme has been relatively successful, and I am pleased that the Government took the decision to extend it in the Budget. I do not know what has happened to the major loan guarantee scheme that was referred to in the coalition agreement. Perhaps it morphed into the enterprise finance guarantee extension. I am pleased to see the extension of a scheme that has helped many businesses in my own constituency.

An important concession that was made by the previous Government concerned VAT and payments to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. It was a massive extension of support by Government, and it cost money. Part of the reason behind the size of the deficit is that the Government decided to support business to ensure that unemployment was lower than it was in the 1980s and 1990s. That was the correct decision at that time. It is interesting to note that some of the suggestions today from the Government Benches involve Government investment to support small businesses. We still have massive problems with the banks.

[Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)]

Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that many of these small and medium-sized businesses are viable? They are facing challenges that are not of their own making. Many were encouraged to take loans by the very banks that pulled the rug from under them when they got the first sign of the recession. Surely it is criminal to destroy viable businesses at a time of such crisis?

[Ian Lucas]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. What is vexing is when businesses that have had a long-term relationship with a bank suddenly discover that the terms and conditions that are being applied by that bank are completely changed to their detriment. There is not the local relationship that there should be. When I ran my own small business—yes, it does happen on the Labour Benches sometimes—I had a long-term relationship with the bank that helped finance my business, and that was very important.

What has been interesting about this debate is that rather than just banging the banks—we have done that to a certain extent—we have begun to move on and to talk about alternative methods of finance. I do not think that we have done that sufficiently in the past. I hope that in a different governmental environment, in which the present Government are seeing just how difficult it is to find a solution to this problem, we look at alternative ways of financing businesses. I think that we have heard some interesting observations today on that issue in what, as I have said already, has been a genuinely positive and reflective debate.

One of the important lessons that we need to learn from the economic crisis of the past few years is that certain businesses actually prospered during it. We need to look at why they did so. When I was in government, I met, for example, representatives of the John Lewis Partnership and of the Co-operative. They are organisations that did very well in the past few years, because they had business models that were apart from the norm and that functioned on a different basis. It seemed to me that they functioned on a more stable basis and, to use a phrase that I have heard a number of times in this debate, on a longer-term basis. I think that we could learn from those organisations.

I also think that we need to reflect on the experience of those organisations and be much more aware of the possibility of businesses being run in a different way from how they have perhaps been run in the past. They could have a different model, a different form of ownership and a longer-term approach. I think that those businesses would be much less susceptible to the bad decisions that we are so often seeing from banks, decisions that are detrimentally affecting the finances of small businesses.

My perception is that banks do not have any idea about alternative business models. Earlier in my life, I was a solicitor and when I was taught about business, the two models were, first, partnerships or sole traders and, secondly, companies. There was very little discussion of alternative business models, which I think is a great failing for perhaps the legal profession, the accountancy profession and, I strongly suspect, the banking profession. We need to explore alternative business models as part of a process of looking at financing business in a different way.

Another interesting point that has been made today is that, within that long-term context, we should look at how pension funds, for example, can support business on a very long-term basis. All of us have pensions and have funds that are built up during many years within those pension funds. However, it seems to me that most of us have very little knowledge of how that money is invested and that most of us do not take as much interest in that investment as we perhaps ought to. As individuals or working with others within our communities, we ourselves could take steps to invest in the types of business that will really provide the bedrock support for our community.