Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Andrew Griffiths

Tuesday 18th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Griffiths]

The hon. Gentleman has read up on this subject. I refer him to the Office of Fair Trading report of 2009 and its recent interventions in this debate—it has said this has had no impact on consumer costs and the price the consumer is paying for a pint. In fact it could be argued that, because of the big distribution models, beer is actually cheaper. The statistics show that beer across the country is cheaper in a tied house than in a free house. I hope I have answered the hon. Gentleman’s concern.

[Ian Lucas]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there is an enormous inequality of bargaining power in the brewing industry between the big businesses that he supports and the small businesses that I am sure he also supports?

[Andrew Griffiths]

I support big and small businesses. The hon. Gentleman should note that the Society of Independent Brewers, which represents the smallest breweries across the country, is opposed to the scrapping of the measure—

[Ian Lucas]

indicated dissent.

[Andrew Griffiths]

The hon. Gentleman shakes his head, but it is true. The hon. Member for Leeds North West tries to undermine decisions made by any organisation that disagrees with him, but the Society of Independent Brewers is clear that this provision would disadvantage the country’s smallest brewers, and I will tell hon. Members why. The society believes that guest pumps would be taken over by lagers from foreign-owned breweries, which would come in and offer massive discounts, so that rather than having micro-brewers selling beer in our pubs, we would have foreign brewers selling lager.

[Ian Lucas]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there is a massive inequality in bargaining power between the large pubcos and the small licensees?

[Andrew Griffiths]

Of course; this is a market and there is always going to be an inequality of bargaining power. If I am buying 10,000 items, I will have greater bargaining power than if I am buying only one. The question that we have to ask ourselves is whether the publican, the tenant, is being treated fairly.

Pub Companies

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Andrew Griffiths

Thursday 12th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley), whose eloquence I aspire to and whose passion I can only dream about. I know that he has much experience of the detail of this issue from the Select Committee. One aspect of it in particular has concerned me for many years.

Before I came to the House, I was a high street solicitor, although I try to keep that quiet most of the time. One thing that I found most surprising when I began to work on commercial leases, particularly in the licensing sector, was the existence of this curious anomaly called the beer tie, which seems to create an anti-competitive situation in the brewing industry that does not appear to be allowed in any other industry.

[Andrew Griffiths]

The hon. Gentleman talks about the anti-competitive nature of the beer tie. Does he accept that a number of Government reports and one by the Office of Fair Trading have said that it is not anti-competitive at all?