Early Parliamentary General Election

Debate between Ian Blackford and Stephen Doughty

Monday 28th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

I would simply say that it is the right thing to do; our young people have a right to have a say on their future, just as EU nationals do. That is the principled position that we have long taken, and I am proud that my colleagues in government in Scotland have made sure that when it comes to our Scottish election, our young people and our EU citizens are given their rights. We want to see this happen here, but I understand the circumstances we are in, where we need to make sure that an election happens on our terms. That is the priority. It is the priority to make sure that we legislate that in future our young people and our EU nationals are given due respect, but the priority we face in the short term is to make sure that we come together to stop this damaging Brexit that the Prime Minister wants to put through.

[Stephen Doughty]

I listened carefully to what the right hon. Gentleman said about 16 and 17-year-olds. I certainly would bring an amendment such as that to any Bill and I would be interested to hear what he says, because this is what we now have the pleasure of having in Wales. He also mentioned EU voters, but does he agree that there is also an issue in respect of overseas voters, many of whom were excluded in previous elections? Does he also agree that crucial issues relating to spending on advertising on social media would need to be addressed before we could be clear that any election could proceed safely and democratically?

[Ian Blackford]

The hon. Gentleman raises issues that have been aired in this House and that he knows we support him on, but the fact of the matter is that we are in a constitutional crisis.

I ask the House to reflect on one thing. We have been granted an extension by the European Union until the end of January. It behoves us all to end this crisis. Time is of the essence. If we act now, in all our national interests, without playing the games that the Conservatives want, we can have that election and put the issue back to the people.

I certainly want the people in Scotland to have their say—and, crucially, to recognise that if we want to protect our interests in Scotland that means we should not and cannot be ripped out of the European Union against our will. That means that Scotland has to complete the journey that we began with devolution 20 years ago and become an independent member of the European Union.

In conclusion—[Interruption.] Well, there we are. There is the message to the people of Scotland: “Sit down and shut up!” That is what we get from the Conservatives. That was absolutely loud and clear, and it comes over time and time again. I tell you this: people at home are watching this and they can see the disrespect that is shown. The day when this Union comes to an end is fast approaching.

The SNP will never—not ever—vote for Brexit. We cannot and will not trust this Prime Minister. The Scottish National party does not want to leave this Prime Minister with time in Parliament to do anything other than dissolve it, so we will not vote with the Government tonight. But make no mistake: the Scottish National party is ready to give people back their say, to stop this Tory Government, to stop Brexit and to demand the right to choose Scotland’s future as an independent country—our destiny.

European Union (Withdrawal)

Debate between Ian Blackford and Stephen Doughty

Tuesday 3rd September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to follow the Leader of the House. I remind him that Lord Cooper in the Court of Session said that parliamentary sovereignty is a purely English concept that has no counterpart in Scottish constitutional history. In Scotland, the people are sovereign, and that, of course, will be a matter of importance as the people of Scotland decide what their future will be.

I am rather surprised by the right hon. Gentleman, who has always been a student of the rights of the House, because the harsh reality is that the reason we are in this situation—that Parliament is to be prorogued—is that the Prime Minister has instructed three stooges to go to Balmoral to give an instruction to the Queen to shut this place down. For all the pronouncements that this is normal, it most certainly is not normal for Parliament to be prorogued for five weeks, and we know that the simple reason is that the Government are running away from the powers and responsibilities that this House has. It is shameful and disgraceful, and in that regard I am deeply honoured and privileged to endorse the motion in the name of the right hon. Member for West Dorset (Sir Oliver Letwin).

The Scottish Government have today launched an ambitious programme for government that is aimed at tackling climate change, building a fairer economy, reducing inequality and improving the lives of citizens across Scotland—a Government getting on with their day job, 12 years into government yet still focused on making life better for those in Scotland. But while the Government in Holyrood are stepping up to meet the challenges facing both Scotland and the world, Westminster is quite literally shutting down. It is very much a tale of two Governments. While the Scottish National party is doing everything here and in Edinburgh to move Scotland forward, the threat to our economy and society from the right-wing Brexiteer cabal occupying Downing Street cannot be mitigated. They must—they will—be stopped.

“A sham” is what reports say one of the Prime Minister’s advisers has called his EU negotiation strategy. “Running down the clock” is what the Telegraph is reporting those close to the Prime Minister as saying his strategy is. A “complete fantasy” is how reports say the Attorney General advised the Prime Minister over his approach to the backstop. The tall tales of this Prime Minister are being exposed by the media by the minute. Sources are exposing the smoke and mirrors behind those playing games in No. 10. Does the Prime Minister think this is a game? If so, it is a very, very dangerous game. Make no mistake, the Prime Minister is acting like a dictator—shutting down Parliament, ripping up democracy and silencing the people.

[Stephen Doughty]

The right hon. Gentleman is making some very strong points. Does he agree that if the Government were serious about negotiating and there were serious negotiations going on, the negotiation team would not have been cut to a quarter of the size that it was under the previous Prime Minister, and there would not be meetings happening where the chief negotiator is saying that the rationale for talking to the Brexit team in the EU is “domestic political” handling?

[Ian Blackford]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct. It is a complete sham to say that negotiations are taking place. This is simply a Government who are driving us towards no deal, and Parliament, thankfully, is standing up for its rights.

The Prime Minister seems to have forgotten that we in this place have been elected to represent the will of our constituents, and we on the SNP Benches have been elected to serve the people of Scotland—the people of Scotland who have overwhelmingly voted to remain in the European Union. Yet this Prime Minister, by proroguing Parliament, has decided to ignore the will of the Scottish people, sidelined their interests and silenced their voices. I say to Scottish Conservative Members: do not stab Scotland in the back tonight; stand together with us. For once—for once—stand up for Scotland’s interests. The Prime Minister clearly thinks he can do whatever he wants with Scotland and get away with it. The SNP is here today to tell him that we are not having it.

Since coming to office, the Prime Minister has not given Parliament the opportunity to debate the constitutional crisis facing these islands. Despite Parliament previously ruling out leaving on a no-deal basis, the Prime Minister is pedalling us towards the cliff edge, risking a no-deal Brexit that risks jobs and food and medicine supplies. The population of the United Kingdom is being threatened by this Government.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Ian Blackford and Stephen Doughty

Committee: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Monday 4th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

Absolutely. When so many people have worked so hard over many generations and many decades to establish the Scottish Parliament, this attack on the competences of the Scottish Parliament by the Government is absolute bare-faced cheek.

The Tory Members of Parliament from Scotland should remember what they said: that they are here to stand up for Scotland. Tonight they have their opportunity. Are they prepared to see this power grab against the Scottish Parliament? Are they going to vote to take powers back from the Scottish Parliament to Westminster? That is the simple choice that Conservative Members of Parliament face tonight.

It is deeply depressing that the UK Government did not even bother to consult the devolved Administrations on the legislation before publishing it. Where is the respect when they cannot even talk to their colleagues in the devolved Administrations as they should do? I am sure that that obvious act would have saved many of the problems and headaches the Government now face over the devolved aspects of the Bill.

[Stephen Doughty]

I was happy to put my name to amendment 72 because it is not about whether we want this Brexit Bill to go forward or not—a leaver or a remainer could support amendment 72—but about respecting the constitutional settlement and respecting the rights of the Welsh Assembly, the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Scottish Parliament.

[Ian Blackford]

I am very grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s remarks. He is absolutely correct. Amendment 72 is about protecting the interests not just of the Scottish Parliament and Government, but of the Administrations in Wales and Northern Ireland.

A point was made earlier about where sovereignty lies, but this House has to be very careful about going against the wishes and the democratic institutions that have been established in all the devolved areas. We play with that at our peril. I am delighted that amendment 72 has gathered support across the House. I sincerely hope—I plead with them—that the Scottish Conservatives join us and support it tonight. Let us all stand up with one clear and united voice, defending the interests of the Scottish Parliament. Do that tonight—stand up for Scotland. It is their moment to stand up and defend the devolution settlement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Blackford]

I am going to make some progress.

The enormity of clause 11 has been highlighted by numerous legal experts. Professor Alan Page noted that the Bill proposes a massive increase in the power of UK Ministers to legislate in the devolved areas. Professor Richard Rawlings noted:

“The sooner clause 11 is cast aside, the better.”

Professor Stephen Tierney has noted a confusion around the Bill, made even more problematic by the fact that the interpretation of devolved competence will become an area of constant fluctuation.

In evidence to the Scottish Parliament’s Finance and Constitution Committee in early November, the Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, the hon. Member for Worcester (Mr Walker), stated that it was “quite possible” that the clause restricting the Scottish Parliament’s competency would be “substantially reduced”. We are having this debate today without any action having been taken. I am deeply disappointed that the Government should have found time to table an amendment on the date of Brexit, but have failed to table anything rectifying the mess they have made of clause 11. The House of Lords Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee report even concluded:

“The Order in Council powers in clause 11 and Schedule 3 are inappropriate and should be removed.”

Secretary of State, why has that not happened?

The problem with clause 11 is not just the power grab. The Law Society of Scotland has raised concerns around the modifying of conferring power by subordinate legislation to modify retained EU law. It highlights that it is not clear what Acts of the Scottish Parliament the new provision will apply to. The Bill suggests that the provision is not intended to be retrospective and will apply only to post-exit Acts of the Scottish Parliament. But what exactly is such an Act—an Act enacted on or after exit day? That would mean that legislation would be required to comply with that restriction even if it was introduced months before exit day and even if it had been passed by the Scottish Parliament before exit day.

Following the mounting pressure, lists of questions and growing criticism, the UK Government brought forward a plan of common frameworks. Although we on the Scottish National party Benches recognise that common frameworks that replace EU law across the UK may be needed in some areas, the competence in matters otherwise devolved should revert to the Scottish Parliament. The scope and content of any UK-wide framework must be agreed rather than imposed. That is the fundamental point. We welcome the Secretary of State’s commitment to that principle.

Although the UK Government have indicated that they wish to develop common frameworks, it is not currently clear how policy within those frameworks might be agreed. The Law Society of England and Wales has called for discussions about where common frameworks will remain and the extent of their scrutiny. Professor Michael Keating has warned of the UK Government creating a “hierarchical model of devolution” through the frameworks. With clause 11 in place, agreement can never be reached, as the price of UK Government demands for an agreement would be reservation of the matter, putting the terms and operation of the common frameworks beyond the powers of the Scottish Parliament. Reading clause 11 leaves me in no doubt of that. Whoever drafted it had absolutely no understanding of the devolution settlements of the Scotland Act 1998.

The Scottish Government have published the 111 powers at risk in clause 11 of being held centrally in London despite falling under devolved competencies. Those powers range from agriculture, to justice, to environmental standards. Devolution has meant the divergence of policy across the UK. The Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009, passed unanimously in the Scottish Parliament, established Scotland as a world leader in tackling climate change. As the UK Government seek continually to catch up, any holding centrally in London of powers that affect this policy divergence will not only hold back the progress Scotland has made on environmental matters but prevent any legal measures that aim to deliver phased introductions on any proposal.

The confusion around the effect of clause 11 deepens. When asked multiple times, as I have done, to name just one power that is currently coming back, the Secretary of State has not been able to do so. Yet the Cabinet Office says that

“anything”

the devolved Administrations

“could do before we leave the EU, they will able to do after we leave”.

The truth is that this Bill does not provide for a single new decision-making power for any of the devolved legislatures. Everything goes to London, and it is for London to decide what ultimately happens to these powers. Where is our sovereignty in all this? Where is the sovereignty of the people of Scotland?

The Scottish Government have been clear that there is no way the Scottish Parliament can grant a legislative consent motion until this Bill is drastically dealt with. If no progress is made today on the amendments tabled in the names of Scottish and Welsh Members, there will be no change in that position. Let me make it clear: we do not want to be in the position of not granting a legislative consent motion. We want to do that, but in order for us to do so, the Government have to respect the powers that should sit in the Scottish Parliament. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Stirling (Stephen Kerr) is saying, “Really?” We have tried to engage in this process constructively; it would be great if the Conservatives would engage in the same way.

[Stephen Doughty]

Is the right hon. Gentleman genuinely surprised that there has not been progress on some of the reasonable amendments that have been tabled on a cross-party basis, given that the Secretary of State for Scotland himself said to the Scottish Affairs Committee that

“it may be that some amendments can be accepted with a little bit of modification”?

I would have hoped that by this stage the Government would have made more progress on some of the very reasonable amendments that have been tabled.

[Ian Blackford]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important intervention. We are 17 months on from the vote and we are at a very important stage of this Bill.

We are trying to negotiate on the basis that we recognise the threats that we are facing. It is incumbent on the Government to recognise that we have to get agreement between the Government in London and the Governments in Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast. It saddens me that we are having eight hours’ debate today and will have eight hours’ debate on Wednesday, and the Government’s approach just seems to be that they are listening. How long does it take them to listen, and how long does it take them to respond to the fact that they are trampling over the powers of the devolved Administrations? The Government in Edinburgh and SNP Members are making it absolutely crystal clear that we do not want to be in the position of a legislative consent motion being withheld. We want to make sure that we can strengthen this Bill to the advantage of everybody, but we need to get the position from the UK Government that they are prepared to respect the Administrations in Edinburgh, in Belfast and in Cardiff.

State Pension Age: Women

Debate between Ian Blackford and Stephen Doughty

Wednesday 30th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

The hon. Gentleman might treat pensioners in Scotland and the rest of the UK with a little bit more respect than he has shown by asking that nonsense of a question. Just in case he does not know, pensions are a reserved matter. I would very much like the Scottish Government to have responsibility for pensions. Let us be quite clear: if this Government gave us access to the national insurance fund, we would not treat pensioners in such a shabby way as the Government are doing. That is the reality.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

I want to go back to the first part of the hon. Gentleman’s argument, when he described the absolute injustice that many of the women who are affected feel. I have met many from my constituency and from across Wales who feel that this is a terrible thing, which must be righted. They expected something; they are not getting it and we need to right that injustice.

[Ian Blackford]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point, and he is absolutely spot on. This is about justice and fairness. It is about people who have paid into a pension and who expected to get that pension—in the case of most of these women, at age 60. The discovery that they were not given adequate notice is a clear reason why the Government must change course and act in a responsible manner.

Local Government Pension Scheme

Debate between Ian Blackford and Stephen Doughty

Monday 24th October 2016 Westminster Hall

[Ian Blackford]

I will give way first to the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty).

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and agree with much of what he has said and indeed with the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds).

I, too, have been contacted by many members of the local scheme and by representatives of Unison, the trade union, who have great concerns about the undemocratic way in which they see the process going forward, and indeed concerns about the process that the Government have used. Whatever their individual views might be on where investment should or should not go, and on whether that is for economic, financial or ethical reasons, the process seems to them to be fundamentally undemocratic.

[Ian Blackford]

Again, I find myself in agreement with that. The Government should reflect on the consultation that is taking place and, hopefully, on the voices that will be raised today, because they have to take on board that, in making the changes that they are talking about, they need that wide body of support.

EU Referendum Rules

Debate between Ian Blackford and Stephen Doughty

Monday 5th September 2016 Westminster Hall

[Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered e-petition 131215 relating to EU referendum rules.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I appreciate the motivation of those who have called for a second referendum. It is a mark of an irresponsible Government that, more than two months after the EU referendum, we know nothing more than the Prime Minister’s soundbite “Brexit means Brexit”. We are not the only ones confused by the UK Government’s haphazard approach to leaving the EU. Speaking at the G20 summit in China, President Obama said that the UK will not be prioritised in free trade talks. He said that he never meant to say that the US would “punish Great Britain”, but simply that he wanted to challenge the notion that the consequences of Brexit are negligible and that Brexiteers would

“just go ahead and light-up a whole bunch of free trade agreements.”

An official Japanese Government briefing leaked to the summit warned of the repercussions for the thousands of people employed by Japanese car, finance and high-tech firms in the UK, and sought assurances about continued access to the single market, tariff levels and other trade privileges. The notion that the UK can quickly put in place trade deals around the world is fanciful. It is wishful thinking without any basis in experience or likelihood of delivery. It is no more than a policy of “hope for the best”.

The UK Government should follow the Scottish Government’s example and announce an urgent economic stimulus plan. We are clear that the least bad option requires the UK to stay within the single market. The Scottish Government will use their influence to shape the best outcome for Scotland and the UK as a whole, which means the UK continuing to be a member of the single market.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr James Gray (in the Chair)]

Order. Before the hon. Gentleman intervenes, I said that I was going to do this to begin with, so I hope the hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) will forgive me if I point out that we are discussing the question of whether there should be a second referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union. It is therefore not in order to discuss anything to do with Scotland or Britain’s role in the wider world. Our sole purpose is to discuss whether there should be a second referendum on our membership of the European Union, so perhaps the hon. Gentleman will restrict himself to that particular topic.

[Ian Blackford]

I am grateful for your guidance, Mr Gray. If you will forgive me, I am trying to move on to discuss that very topic, but I am putting it in the context of many of the things that happened during the referendum campaign and why we are in this position.

[Stephen Doughty]

I am mindful of your comments, Mr Gray, so I will try to put my intervention in the correct context. Many of my constituents have written to me arguing for a second referendum, but many have also argued that it must be absolutely clear that it cannot be the case that Parliament does not get to have a say on this issue again, and that it certainly cannot be the case that the devolved Administrations and Governments do not get to have a say. It is my view that they absolutely must. Does the hon. Gentleman agree?

[Ian Blackford]

I am very grateful for that intervention. I will come on to the sovereignty of Parliament—and, indeed, the sovereignty of the people—because that is a very important point. I will address it later in my speech.