Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Hilary Benn and George Osborne

Wednesday 17th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The pension freedoms that we introduced in April are delivering the fundamental Conservative principle that people who have worked hard and saved hard all their lives should be trusted with their own money, and 60,000 people have accessed their pension savings. There are clearly concerns, however, that some companies are not doing their part to make those freedoms available. We are investigating how to remove the barriers, and we are now considering a cap on charges. I am asking the Financial Conduct Authority to investigate. People who have worked hard and saved hard deserve a better deal.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

May I begin by congratulating the right hon. Gentleman on his appointment as First Secretary of State?

It was reported this week that Talha Asmal, a 17-year-old from Dewsbury, blew himself up in an ISIL attack that killed 11 people. I am sure the right hon. Gentleman would agree that we need to do everything we can to prevent our young people from travelling to Iraq and Syria, so will he tell the House whether the Government now have an agreement in place with all the airlines to raise alerts when unaccompanied minors travel to known Syrian routes, and whether our police are being notified by the Turkish authorities when British citizens arrive at transit points to Syria?

[Mr Osborne]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his welcome, and I welcome him to his place. I think his father would have been extremely proud to see him leading for the Labour party today. Speaking for those on this side of the House, we are extremely relieved to see that there is no Benn in the Labour leadership contest but plenty of Bennites.

The right hon. Gentleman raises the very serious situation around ISIL, and I think everyone in this House is shocked that a 17-year-old citizen of our country can become radicalised and, apparently, become a suicide bomber on the other side of the world—of course, we also have had the distressing reports of the families from Bradford. So we are taking a number of steps. First, we want to work with schools, mosques and other community institutions to help prevent the radicalisation—there is a new statutory duty to do that. Secondly, we are working with the airlines, including getting in place those agreements that the right hon. Gentleman talks about and providing training at the borders, to stop people travelling to countries such as Syria and to remove their passports if they attempt to do so. Thirdly—this will be an issue in this Parliament—we also need to make sure that our security and intelligence services have the powers they need to track people who are trying to get back into this country. I look forward to cross-party support on that issue.

[Hilary Benn]

I am grateful for that reply. I think the House would appreciate an update on the progress of those discussions with the airlines, and I noted that the right hon. Gentleman was not able to respond to the question I asked about the Turkish authorities. This is a very serious matter and we need to know where things have got to.

We know that, for some time, a growing number of young people have been groomed to travel to Syria and Iraq. Last November, the Intelligence and Security Committee criticised the Government for not giving the Prevent programme sufficient priority and concluded that

“counter-radicalisation programmes are not working.”

Why does he think that is?

[Mr Osborne]

Frankly, I do not accept all those conclusions, and there has been a disagreement about the Prevent programme. In the past, there was a confusion between the programmes that supported integration and the programmes that tried to prevent radical extremism. As a result, certain organisations that should never have got public money did so under the last Government.

The Prevent programme is doing its work, but we have also passed a very important law in this Parliament that now ensures there is a statutory duty on public authorities such as a schools, universities and the police to develop the Prevent strategy and the counter-radicalisation strategy. Where I think we agree—after all, on an issue such as this let us try to find areas where we agree—is on the need to try to do more in these communities to prevent this radicalisation from taking place in the first place.

[Hilary Benn]

I assure the right hon. Gentleman that he will, of course, have the full support of Members on the Opposition Benches on measures that are taken to try to deal with this problem. But can he assure us that community-led Prevent programmes are now actually being implemented in places such as Dewsbury and elsewhere, including by providing appropriate training to teachers and other workers in the public sector, as the new public sector duty to which he has just referred comes into force in two weeks’ time?

[Mr Osborne]

I can confirm that that training is taking place—indeed, we have provided additional resources. In the spirit of this constructive conversation, may I say that we have an extremism Bill in the Queen’s Speech which goes further in seeking to disrupt groups that are plotting either to commit offences here in this country or to travel abroad and become further radicalised? I hope the Labour party looks seriously at that Bill and offers its support to the Government.

[Hilary Benn]

It is now clear that right across the middle east and north Africa, the common enemy is ISIL. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that our strategic objective must be to continue to bring together all of the countries affected, in the region and internationally, to put aside other differences and co-operate to confront ISIL?

[Mr Osborne]

I of course completely agree with the right hon. Gentleman on that. Britain plays a leading role in bringing together the various allies that are delivering the impact against ISIL. Indeed, we have had some welcome news of prominent terrorist leaders, not necessarily in ISIL but in other organisations, who have been killed in the past couple of days. If those reports are correct, it is a very welcome step forward in the global fight against terrorism.

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; ultimately, the Iraqi Government and the Syrian people are going to have to find a way to take greater control of their own security. In Iraq, we work with the legitimate Government there. In Syria, we support the moderate Opposition, continuing to support and train them in the tasks that they undertake.

[Hilary Benn]

Turning now to how we resolve that crisis, which, as the right hon. Gentleman will know, has seen the largest movement of refugees since the end of the second world war, can he tell the House what expectations he has for the new round of talks that UN special envoy Staffan de Mistura is holding in Geneva?

[Mr Osborne]

First of all, the right hon. Gentleman is right to talk about the displaced persons, particularly in countries such as Jordan and Turkey, which are bearing an enormous burden. That is why Britain has such a massive aid contribution. Across this House, we can be incredibly proud that the parties in the recent general election stood on a commitment to deliver 0.7% of our national income in development aid. That is not just a humanitarian effort but to make sure that we are able to help in situations such as this. When it comes to burden sharing across the region, of course we want to help, but we must be realistic. We cannot take large numbers of Syrian refugees into our country.

[Hilary Benn]

Finally, as more and more people gather in Libya to try to cross the Mediterranean, HMS Bulwark is doing an extraordinary job in rescuing frightened people. But we learned yesterday that its deployment is under active review. Having made a grave error last October in withdrawing support from the Mare Nostrum search and rescue operations, will the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that the Government will continue to save the lives of those in peril on that sea?

[Mr Osborne]

Of course I can give the right hon. Gentleman the assurance that we will continue to play our full part in the search and rescue operation in the Mediterranean. As I understand it, essential maintenance needs to be carried out on HMS Bulwark, which is clearly an operational issue, but no one should doubt Britain’s determination to play its role in helping with this situation.

May I end on this point? Taking people out of the water and rescuing them is essential—we are a humanitarian nation and we need to deal with those issues—but, in the end, we must break the link that enables someone to get on a boat and then claim asylum in Europe and spend the rest of their lives on the European continent. That is what draws these people. They are aiming for a better life, but circumventing proper immigration controls on the European continent. We should work across Europe to break that link. I look forward to the right hon. Gentleman’s role in helping us do that.