Sittings of the House
Debate between Greg Knight and Robert Flello(11 years, 10 months ago)
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Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)
The Chairman of the Procedure Committee is making an extremely good speech and balancing all the different factors. He says that “it depends on the whipping”, but I am sure that he will accept that often on a Tuesday night, when there is no Whip and Members are not engaged with a debate, one still finds Members in their offices until 9, 10, 11 o’clock at night—even when no votes are taking place and there is no engagement in the Chamber. That is the reality of this place.
Mr Knight
That is certainly true; I think we are all aware of that. It may not be a matter of any moment for Opposition Members, but, if the House were to decide to sit earlier on a Tuesday, it would in effect scupper many ministerial visits to different parts of the country during the daytime. Opposition Members might not be bothered about that now, but there might come a time when it does matter to them.
To return to the process, if the Tuesday motion on retaining the status quo falls, I understand that the right hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Dame Joan Ruddock) will then move motion 4, which I have also signed, recommending that our sitting hours on a Tuesday change to mirror those currently in force on a Wednesday.
I understand also that if the right hon. Lady is successful and the motion is passed, she might also move motion 9, at the end of this business on the Order Paper, recommending that private Members’ Bills be taken on a Tuesday evening after 7 pm. I have considerable sympathy for the House looking at whether we move the time for debate on private Members’ Bills, but, if her motion becomes eligible to move, I ask her again to reflect on not doing so—for five reasons.
The Procedure Committee has resolved to undertake a full report into private Members’ Bills and the procedure relating thereto. I have also been to see the Leader of the House, because it is important that the House, at an early date, decides whether it wishes private Members’ Bills to continue on a Friday or to move to another day of the week—not necessarily a Tuesday.
I am pleased to say that the Leader of the House accepted the strength of the necessity for an early decision on the matter, and he made it clear to me that he intends to provide time for the Backbench Business Committee, either in the September spill-over or shortly thereafter, when I hope that the Committee will allocate a debate for that purpose. So we have had a promise of time to debate the question of when we deal with private Members’ Bills, and it should be a wider one than just, say, moving them from Friday to Tuesday; the House should debate whether to take such Bills on a Wednesday—perhaps even a Thursday might be an option—or keep them where they are on a Friday.
There are consequences of just moving such Bills from a Friday to a Tuesday, not least that such business will be more likely to attract a payroll Whip if the Government of the day find it unpalatable.
Estates of Deceased Persons (Forfeiture Rule and Law of Succession) Bill
Debate between Greg Knight and Robert Flello(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)
I congratulate the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight) on bringing the Bill to the House. I know the pressures and pitfalls associated with promoting a private Member’s Bill all too well, following my own experience with the Sustainable Livestock Bill. I hope that his hon. Friends will be somewhat pithier in their contributions when debating his Bill than they were on 12 November. I particularly noted the right hon. Gentleman’s opening remarks. Parliamentary observers—those outside the Chamber—will have seen the usual suspects in the House today and will know that we are probably in for a long sitting.
Robert Flello
I always like to be generous and, indeed, I thank the right hon. Gentleman for supporting my Bill on 12 November. I wish, sadly, that some of his colleagues had felt the same way.
The right hon. Gentleman did an extremely good job; he gave a valuable explanation, with examples that clarified the existing law and its application. I also congratulate the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith) on his usual measured and thoughtful contribution to the debate. I concur that further consideration in Committee would be valuable to look at some of the detail. Despite 40 minutes or so of the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire introducing his Bill, some issues still need to be teased out in Committee.
If enacted, the Bill would address the concerns raised by the Law Commission in its 2005 report, “The Forfeiture Rule and the Law of Succession”. The report proposed amendments to the law as it stands, whereby grandchildren of a deceased individual are disallowed from inheriting property and suffer from what might be described as the sins of their parents being visited upon them if the parents were responsible for the murder of the deceased. The current law disinherits grandchildren of the deceased when their parent forgoes their inheritance, and it also applies when the parent is an unmarried minor on inheritance and dies without attaining majority, or marrying or entering a civil partnership.
The report’s headline recommendation was that a deemed predeceased rule be used when a child or relative has either murdered the deceased or opted to disclaim the inheritance, thereby forfeiting their entitlement to it. The child would be considered to have died shortly before the parent, and the law would then allow for the grandchild to inherit.
As the debate over the rights and wrongs of assisted suicide continues, and cases of patricide and matricide sadly continue to occur, the Bill is timely, and the Opposition believe it addresses a clear injustice. Indeed, the previous Labour Government accepted the recommendations of the Law Commission report, and in December 2009 produced the draft Civil Law Reform Bill which, among other things, incorporated those recommendations. The Bill was welcomed by the Justice Committee and it is disappointing that the current Government chose not to proceed with the measures in it.
I welcome the Bill introduced by the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire and I am pleased that he has used his favourable draw in the private Members’ ballot to bring forward legislation that reflects the combined wisdom of the Law Commission, and indeed the previous Labour Government. The Bill would take forward, with some modifications, clauses in part 3 of the Civil Law Reform Bill and despite the Government’s decision not to take forward that draft Bill, I am pleased that the Front-Bench team have—I believe—indicated that they do not oppose the Bill before us today.
The forfeiture rule is, of course, part of the wider principle that an individual should not profit from a crime they have committed. The previous Government strengthened that principle through such legislation as the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, and the Labour party in opposition continues to support it. The forfeiture rule prevents an individual from inheriting property from someone, through a will, when they have unlawfully killed the deceased or unlawfully aided, abetted, counselled or procured the death. The rules as they stand would disallow a grandchild of the deceased from inheriting anything in such a situation—a rule the Bill seeks to amend.
The Law Commission report stated that the law as it stands is unfair for three reasons: grandchildren should not be punished for the sins of their parents; it is more likely that the deceased would have wished to benefit the grandchildren than other relatives; and the general policy of intestacy law is to prefer direct descendants to siblings and other relatives—to make an exception under the forfeiture rules is inconsistent with that policy.
The Bill introduces the deemed predeceased rule suggested by the Law Commission, whereby the child is considered to have died before the parent, and I believe it would address the Law Commission’s three criticisms. It would mean that unless stated otherwise in a will, a deceased person’s property would be distributed as though certain individuals—one who disclaims a gift, forfeits a gift, or a single parent dying under the age of 18—had died immediately before the deceased.
It is worth further mentioning the last of those three individuals—the single parent dying under the age of 18—as it is commendable that the right hon. Gentleman has used his Bill to address that anomaly. The current law states that when a parent dies leaving minor children, the “vested interest” of that child cannot be passed to their own children if they die before the age of 18. That is deeply unfair, so the Opposition welcome the inclusion of those provisions in the Bill.
As the debate over assisted suicide develops, or considerations as yet unknown become more important, future parliamentarians may find themselves debating the matter again. Unfortunately, when legislation is introduced to close a loophole or address a fairly narrow issue, it can in turn create new loopholes or additional issues. Those concerns notwithstanding, the Opposition have no objection to the Bill and we hope to see it proceed to Committee for further and more detailed scrutiny.
I again congratulate the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire on introducing the Bill. If it is pushed to a Division, I hope that a sufficient number of Members will join me in voting in favour of it.