Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Greg Clark and Chris Bryant

Tuesday 30th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

I will give that commitment. I am very pleased that the Competition and Markets Authority has launched that report and made some interim recommendations. We will be looking at them during the weeks ahead. My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that this is a sector that is fundamental to the confidence that we have in businesses right across the country.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Everybody wants to do their bit by recycling, but it is absolutely infuriating when we get to the supermarket and all the fruit and veg is wrapped in plastic. Then there is the exciting moment when we get home to the kitchen and see that there is a little sign, which looks like the packaging is recyclable, but then we read the words, “Not yet recyclable”. What on earth do they mean by that? Are we meant to keep it all until, suddenly, somebody announces that it is now recyclable? Are we meant to put it in the attic or store it in a cupboard? What are we meant to do? Surely, we should ban those words. The packaging is not recyclable and it should not be available.

Nissan in Sunderland

Debate between Greg Clark and Chris Bryant

Monday 4th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

I visit Japan a lot and speak both to the leaders in the Government and the leaders of important investors there. They regard Britain as a place with which they have enjoyed good relationships and in which they have invested with prosperity. They admire the ingenuity of our scientists and our engineers. They are keen to work even more closely together in future. But is true to say that they look at the uncertainty around Brexit and think that after two and a half years it is time that it is resolved and comes to a conclusion. When they say that, we should listen to them and act on their advice.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State is a nice man, but I honestly feel as if we are going to hell in a handcart. The only people who can genuinely stop this conveyor belt towards a no-deal Brexit in a few weeks’ time are people like him sitting in the Cabinet. They have got to go back to the Cabinet and say to the Prime Minister, “We will not put up with this. This will do lasting damage to our country, to our people, to our jobs and to our standing around the world, and we must put a stop to it; otherwise we will resign.” I suggest that he does that before next week’s votes.

[Greg Clark]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s advice. I think it is matter of public record that I have constantly and consistently advocated the need for us to be able to secure the trading relationship that we need to make sure that the jobs in his constituency and all around the country continue. It is important that I should do that.

Industrial Strategy Consultation

Debate between Greg Clark and Chris Bryant

Monday 23rd January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

Clearly lots of good things happen in Daresbury—[Interruption.] Some better than others, it is pointed out—that is a little mean.

My hon. Friend the Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) mentions two things. The first is the devolution through the local growth fund, which is making a big difference across the country by putting more funds in the hands of people with the knowledge of what is needed locally to make a difference. The second, of course, is the big investment in research and development, of which impressive facilities such as that in Daresbury will make good use.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Mobile technology is a very important part of modern infrastructure, but may I urge the Secretary of State to be cautious when he looks at Ofcom’s figures? I suspect that many of us in the Chamber have looked at its maps that say, “Yes! Universal coverage with 3G and 4G—no problems at all,” only to find that the situation on the ground is phenomenally difficult. According to Ofcom, Porth—and this building, for that matter—have perfect access to all four mobile signals, but that is not true, is it?

[Greg Clark]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. When we talk about infrastructure, digital infrastructure, whether it is mobile or broadband, is very important. For businesses that depend on it, it is about dependability and reliability, not theoretical availability. That is very important, so it forms part of our approach.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Greg Clark and Chris Bryant

Tuesday 8th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

My hon. Friend provides me with an opportunity to thank all members of that Select Committee for their forensic work during its time in this House. It made very valuable contributions to public policy, and I know that its successor Committee will continue the high standard that it set. I will indeed pay close attention to the recommendations of the final report.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

The restoration and renewal of this building will be a multi-billion pound infrastructure project, but all the evidence suggests that at the moment this country does not have the skills to be able to deliver it. I urge the Secretary of State to set up a specific industrial strategy to get more colleges up and down the country engaged in training people for major infrastructure and construction businesses, so that we can make sure that every single one of our constituents has an opportunity to work here?

[Greg Clark]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. As we acquire what I hope will be growing order books for UK companies and businesses, we will be able to fulfil them by having a workforce that is trained and skilled to the right level. The hon. Gentleman illustrates that very well.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Greg Clark and Chris Bryant

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who is very well informed about the need to translate research success into small business success. I am sure that we can discuss it further.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

17. I welcome the new team as well, although I suspect that even the Secretary of State knows that this is not going to be a full English Brexit, but a dog’s Brexit. [Interruption.] Thank you very much; I am here all week. As for the industrial strategy, one of the real problems facing many parts of the country—as was revealed at the time of the referendum—is that they are now post-industrial. They are areas that formerly had one industry, such as tourism, iron and steel, coal or shipbuilding. Will the Secretary of State ensure that we take the opportunity to invest in those forgotten areas, so that we can improve their productivity in particular?

[Greg Clark]

They are not forgotten. The hon. Gentleman is very good at one-liners. The creative industries are an important source of strength, and that includes comedians.

Some of the most successful places in the world, especially cities, have developed in such a way that they have resilience as a result of having different industries. That even applies to cities in which there was formerly a single dominant industry. We want to work with local leaders to ensure that we strengthen the resilience of our own regional centres.

Recall of MPs Bill

Debate between Greg Clark and Chris Bryant

Monday 24th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

The Government’s demeanour throughout the debates on the Bill, if I may put it in this way, has been that we are open to facilitating the development of amendments and proposals that either House can debate. In conversations, I have been open to allowing officials to advise on the kinds of proposals that may or may not work legally. I see no reason why that should not continue. It is important to be clear that such proposals cannot carry the guarantee of a Government amendment, but I am happy to use my offices and those of my ministerial colleagues to have those conversations.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I urge the Minister not to listen too much to the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) for the simple reason that there is a fundamental flaw in his proposals: we would be asking a court to make a judgment on whether such a petition should go forward on remarkably subjective terms. Each of the terms in his proposals—“trivial”, “vexatious”, “brought for party political purposes”, “misconduct”, “trust”—is entirely subjective and is surely not good enough for a court to be able to assess.

[Greg Clark]

I said a few moments ago that it had not been possible, in good faith, for the Government to recommend an amendment that the House could responsibly be invited to support. Since further amendments or developments of the Bill are a matter for the House I will ensure that advice and help is provided, but these matters must be considered and there is no guarantee that a form can be found that avoids the practical difficulties. The hon. Gentleman’s more fundamental point is a matter for this House and the other place, and any amendments would return to this House to be determined.

Let me set out some of the challenges in the new clauses, although some have been expressed already. The definition of misconduct is based on the common law offence in England and Wales, but its test is not just the criminal offence. As drafted, it could capture behaviour that would not be a criminal offence, including in an MP’s private affairs, and it would be for the court to judge whether certain behaviour in a Member’s private life amounted to misconduct. The election court would have to apply the test of whether the MP had committed

“misconduct to such a degree as to amount to an abuse of the public’s trust”.

I understand and appreciate the aim of linking misconduct to an MP’s standing in the eyes of the public, but as drafted it is a rather subjective test. The House will want to take a view on the kinds of evidence and analysis that a court might draw on to judge whether the public at large felt there had been a betrayal of trust, including where no criminal offence was alleged to have been committed.

Recall of MPs Bill

Debate between Greg Clark and Chris Bryant

Monday 27th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Greg Clark)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Amess. The hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) has given you some timekeeping assistance through his suggestions, and I shall try not to fall foul of that.

As the group includes many amendments and new clauses, I shall say something about the overall choice facing the Committee that is embodied by the measures, before giving the Government’s assessment of each, which I hope will help the Committee. If there is time, the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah), will make a speech at the end of the debate, so colleagues who speak after me will have an opportunity to hear a reaction to their remarks.

As I explained on Second Reading, the Bill has had a difficult history. Some people are against it—and indeed against anything that introduces a system for recalling MPs. The Political and Constitutional Reform Committee concluded of the draft Bill:

“We do not believe that there is a gap in the House’s disciplinary procedures which needs to be filled by the introduction of recall.”

My hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) made a similar point. Others, including my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith), believe that we should adopt an entirely different model of recall: one that is not triggered by proven misconduct, but can instead be initiated by a petition of the electorate for any reason at any time.

That disagreement could lead one to suppose that the Government’s Bill is just another contribution to a debate without consensus, and that it has no greater or lesser significance than any other approach, but that would not be right. The Bill is fundamentally different from the approach of no recall, or that of recall for any reason at any time, although I hesitate to tease my hon. Friend by referring to that as the Martini recall—any time, any place, anywhere. The Bill as drafted implements completely and faithfully the promises that the main parties made in their manifestos at the general election. The Conservative manifesto promised that

“a Conservative government will introduce a power of ‘recall’ to allow electors to kick out MPs, a power that will be triggered by proven serious wrongdoing.”

The Labour manifesto said:

“MPs who are found responsible for financial misconduct will be subject to a right of recall if Parliament itself has failed to act against them.”

The Lib Dem manifesto said:

“We would introduce a recall system so that constituents could force a by-election for any MP found responsible for serious wrongdoing.”

The coalition agreement reflected those positions.

As drafted, the Bill would cause a recall petition to be triggered if an MP was sentenced to a term of imprisonment of up to a year or a suspended sentence of any length—hon. Members will know that disqualification is already automatic following immediate imprisonment of more than a year—or, in other words, if serious wrongdoing was proved; or if an MP was suspended by the House for at least 21 sitting days, or 28 continuous days, which again would indicate proven serious wrongdoing. Members will of course consider carefully all the amendments that have been tabled, but it is only reasonable to observe that both other views, whatever their merits, do not implement the particular commitments that all parties made to the electorate at the previous election.

[Chris Bryant]

I am grateful to the Minister for how he is presenting his argument as, ironically enough, debates in the House are often most fractious when there is the smallest difference between people. However, I suggest that the flaw in his argument is his reliance on the words “misconduct” and “wrongdoing” which, under the Bill, will be determined only by MPs. That is the problem for many members of the public, as they would like to be able to decide what constitutes wrongdoing and misconduct.

[Greg Clark]

The hon. Gentleman expresses his reasonable and important point well. As I said on Second Reading, I do not take the view that the Bill cannot be strengthened. One thing we can conclude from the Second Reading debate is that we will want to reflect, in Committee and during the Bill’s later stages, on the public’s involvement. The Bill can be improved and clarified, and I repeat my personal assurance that the Government will be open to reflecting improvements in the Bill during its passage.

Amendment 42, a cross-party amendment that was ably spoken to by the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath)—although he is my hon. Friend, he has the demeanour of a right hon. Member—proposes a constituent-led trigger for recall, albeit one based on misconduct. That important suggestion has much to commend it, so I will reflect carefully on the amendment. Similarly, the Opposition have suggested making the trigger more sensitive and sending the clear message that the criminal abuse of the parliamentary expenses system should trigger recall, and I appreciated the spirit in which the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife spoke to those proposals. While my colleagues and I will vote to maintain the balance that the Bill as drafted strikes, and for a faithful adherence to the manifesto on which we stood, it might well be possible for us to support changes on Report. That demeanour is an appropriate response to today’s proceedings and last week’s Second Reading debate, given that no overwhelming case has been made at this stage for sending the Bill back to the drawing board and starting again.

Cyprus

Debate between Greg Clark and Chris Bryant

Monday 18th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

Yes, but discussions and negotiations are taking place between Cyprus and the eurozone—and, indeed, in the Cypriot Parliament—on whether the proposals that were agreed over the weekend will be enacted. We have some way to go before we get to that stage and I will, of course, update the House if and when we get to that final stage.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I am amazed that the Minister is not more scandalised that thousands of ordinary Cypriots, in this country and in Cyprus, are going to lose money. Money will be filched from them when, frankly, the people who caused the problems—the Government of and the bankers in Cyprus—will not lose anything. Leaving that aside, how much British Government money from the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office will be lost in Cypriot banks?

[Greg Clark]

I am scandalised that the situation in Cyprus was allowed to happen in this way. It should not have happened in terms of the supervision of the banking system or the country’s fiscal performance. We will not be able to make an assessment of our guarantee to the armed services until we see the final shape of the negotiations, but when we do I will make sure that the House knows about it.

Multiannual Financial Framework

Debate between Greg Clark and Chris Bryant

Wednesday 31st October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

Let me make a bit of progress and then I shall, of course, give way to hon. Members on both sides of the House.

Our opposition to the demands of the Commission is more than a matter of headline figures alone. When we dig down into the detail, there is always something repellent to find. For example, let us consider the EU administration costs. Members may not be aware that the pay of employees within the EU bureaucracy increases automatically each year. There is, however, a sensible provision to set this aside at times of economic crisis yet, unbelievably, the EU Commission is taking the EU Council to court to insist that the EU is not experiencing a time of economic crisis and that pay should rise. This is the same Commission that has attended four ordinary and three emergency European Councils during the past 12 months to agree unprecedented measures to bail out member states which have been unable to fund themselves without help. So while some member states face a crisis of solvency, the institutions of the EU face a crisis of credibility.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I welcome the right hon. Gentleman to his post. I have known him for a long time and he has always been a very good pro-European. One of the elements that determines how much Britain pays towards the EU is VAT. If we increase VAT in this country, it means that we pay more money to the EU. Can he tell us precisely how much more we are paying by virtue of the increase of VAT to 20%?

[Greg Clark]

The hon. Gentleman may have known me for a long time but he has a faulty memory. It was his Government—he served, I think, as Europe Minister in that Government—who gave away half of our rebate, which caused the increase that we have seen.

Though they are ready to lecture others on fiscal discipline, it is fiscal incontinence that characterises the approach of the European institutions. Administrative costs need to be hammered down to bring them into line with the modern world, yet the response of the Commission’s spokesman has been little short of insolent. The British Government asked the Commission to model cuts of €5 billion, €10 billion and €15 billion to its staffing budget, and the Commission refused. Its spokesman said:

“We declined as it’s a lot of work and a waste of time for our staff who are busy with more urgent matters…we are better educated than national civil servants. We’re high fliers, not burger flippers”.

As the Prime Minister has pointed out, one in every six of the Commission’s employees earns over €100,000 a year. The ordinary working people of this country have run out of patience with the attitude displayed by the Commission. The British public are ready to make sacrifices to put Britain back on its feet, but not to featherbed a self-styled elite and its agenda. We are not rolling back wasteful public spending in this country only to see it re-imposed from Brussels.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Bryant]

If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will not. A lot of people want to take part in the debate. Perhaps he will catch Mr Speaker’s eye later.

Mr Barroso, in his introduction to the original version of the Commission’s suggestions, said:

“The European budget is the instrument for investment in Europe and growth in Europe.”

That is arrogance of the highest degree. It might be one instrument—a tiny part of the equation that is trying to refocus Europe towards a more competitive economy that is able to fight for jobs and added value against countries such as Russia, China and Mexico—but the biggest instruments must surely be the member states, or even the nations and regions within them. For instance, the factor that will make a difference to the resolution of Spain’s problems will almost certainly be the economic future of Catalunya and whether it invests in IT and future industries. It will not be the EU budget.

I am also convinced that, whatever happens to the EU budget, it will not make a dramatic difference to solving the problems in Greece or in Spain. The issues in those two countries are completely different. In Spain, for instance, the sub-prime mortgage market and the way in which houses were constructed along the coast, often for the British ex-pat market, is the single biggest problem that is dragging down the Spanish economy. So I say to Mr Barroso that, although I am ardently pro-European and I believe that the European Union has been one of the great political success stories of the past 100 years, I do not believe that the EU budget is the way to resolve the problems of those countries.

Government Members have been talking today about the small-ticket items in the EU’s expenditure. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury held rather different views from those he holds today when he was a member of the Social Democratic party. When I was a member of the Conservative party, I held exactly the same views on Europe as those I hold today. The sadness is that the Conservative party has abandoned its past.

[Greg Clark]

May I again correct the faulty recollection of the hon. Gentleman? The reason that I was a member of the David Owen branch of the SDP, rather than the one that went off in a different direction, was precisely because of its position on Europe, and I held the same views then as I do now.

[Chris Bryant]

As you know, Mr Speaker, I love apologising to Government Members, and I apologise to the Minister. The point I am making is a serious one, however. He referred to some of the small-ticket items in the EU budget, but the big-ticket item is the common agricultural policy. If we do not address that issue in this next round, we will manifestly have failed to deal with the gaping moral and ethical hole at the centre of the European Union.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Bryant]

I am not giving way, as I know that many other Members want to speak.

I resent the Minister’s answer to my earlier question, as I think he simply misunderstood it. When the Government increased VAT in this country to 20%, it increased the amount of money we would have to pay to—[Interruption.] The Minister has probably been inspired by officials at this point, so he may know the answer.

[Greg Clark]

I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman, as a former Minister for Europe, did not know the answer—that the tax base is notional, so the levies of VAT make no difference whatever. It is irrelevant.

[Chris Bryant]

I will explain it all to the Minister later; he is wrong.

There are some specific savings that the EU could and should make. One relates to the ludicrous caravanserai between Brussels and Strasbourg. I merely point out to Conservative Members that it was John Major who negotiated that final agreement in the treaty of Amsterdam; I wish we were able to dismantle it. It costs us £180 million a year, and it is a complete and utter waste of time and money. Similarly, we have to tackle the common agricultural policy.

My final point for Conservative Members is this. If they choose to start their negotiating position first by saying that the veto is going to be used, and secondly by saying that there is a long shopping list of things that they want the EU to deliver—the new Margaret Thatcher, the hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom), has often referred to a shopping list—the danger is that when they get to the till, they will have to say how they are going to pay. If they have already said that they want to get out of justice and home affairs policy and all sorts of other European Union policies, they will not have a negotiating leg to stand on. If they have already declared that they are going to use the veto, they will end up with a worse, rather than a better position for the United Kingdom and will be paying more money. That is why I, as a good pro-European, will be supporting the amendment.