Thomas Cook

Debate between Grant Shapps and Andrew Jones

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Grant Shapps]

I should have picked up the point about Thomas Cook employees abroad in answer to a previous question. We are actually bringing back some of those people, starting with the crews and the operational people. I think I am right in saying that yesterday we had brought back about 150 so far. We are not ignoring them, but we need to bring passengers back first. I have asked the CAA to be as flexible as possible in bringing back Thomas Cook employees, and the hon. Gentleman is right to remind me that I had not mentioned that before.

The hon. Gentleman asked a number of other questions that I have previously answered, and I do not want to go round in circles. The House must know that no Government would want to lose an iconic, 178-year-old famous British name. I hear people ask, “Why don’t you just put the money in?” All those people have to do is open the books to realise that there is a £1.7 billion debt, with £1.5 billion lost in six months alone, and that another profit warning had been issued.

I am afraid that this situation is entirely different from that with Condor, which is a fundamentally profitable airline, and it just would not be responsible to throw good money after bad. We would probably be back here in a very short time to offer a bail-out to get people home, rather than to bail out the company. This company just was not a going concern with which we could do that.

The hon. Gentleman asks sensible questions about whether other holidaymakers are being held to ransom or being held captive elsewhere in the world, and I am not aware of any other location in which that is the case at the moment. However, it is a live and moving situation, and under our direction the CAA has been issuing proactive letters to explain that holidaymakers’ bills will be settled in places where some hotels have not had bills settled for the past three months because of the company’s bankruptcy. I pay tribute to and thank our foreign mission in Cuba for proactively getting in touch with Ministers yesterday to resolve that appalling situation.

I think that covers the majority of the questions that I had not previously answered.

[Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)]

As somebody who worked in the travel industry for many years, I am saddened to see the demise of Thomas Cook, but it is also worth noting that the sector has seen some notable collapses over the years. The scale and complexity of this repatriation operation are significant, and I thank my right hon. Friend for his update. After this urgent work on repatriation has been completed, and because this sector is prone to significant collapses, may I ask him to focus on the industry structure and a sector insurance scheme that would protect passengers and taxpayers in the future?

[Grant Shapps]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The airline insolvency review, which reported in May, provides a few useful ideas about things that could be done, including some that require primary legislation and others that do not and on which we have already started to act. We cannot keep returning to this situation. It is terrible for passengers and for all those involved, and there is a problem in finding sufficient aircraft to solve this problem when it happens.

Govia: Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City Railway

Debate between Grant Shapps and Andrew Jones

Tuesday 18th December 2018 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Jones]

My right hon. Friend is as wise and experienced in this matter as we would expect, and she is right to say that there was not a single cause of the failure from the timetable change in May. Everybody should be taking some responsibility for that, and my right hon. Friend is correct to highlight the franchise operator and Network Rail.

We have of course had the Glaister review, which looked at the underlying causes. I will come on to some of the things that have changed as a result of that. The key point was to ensure that lessons were learned and that we do not have a repetition of what was a complete failure. It was very frustrating because across the country as a whole, some really impressive things have been delivered—things that were started and taken forward, indeed, by my right hon. Friend. I am thinking of such things as, in the north, the Ordsall Chord and work at Liverpool Lime Street. The timetable change was to bring some of the new interventions and upgrades into service for passengers, but that has not happened yet, so it did not just cause disruption; it was a real missed opportunity as well. I will come on to that in a moment.

Since the interim timetable was introduced on 15 July, we have seen improved performance on the Great Northern line. In the most recent figures, the public performance measure for these services was around 83%. I completely understand that that is not good enough; we are obviously aiming for vast improvement, but it is still an improvement compared with 74%, which was the equivalent last year. Yes, there clearly remains room for improvement, and we continue to push GTR to improve reliability across its network.

[Grant Shapps]

I just caution the Minister on quoting statistics, because the trouble is that it is 80-whatever per cent. of fewer trains. The timetable has left my constituents with fewer options, and that means that the percentages, even if the timetable runs perfectly, are actually rather meaningless.

[Andrew Jones]

I will come on to that point. I would not go so far as to say that the statistics are meaningless, because they are part of the measures that we use to measure the performance of train operating companies. They are regularly scrutinised; indeed, I have found myself looking daily at the PPM by individual franchise, which is a habit I must get out of. This is monitored by the regulator and by officials in the Department. I will come on to the quantity of trains, but it does matter. We want to ensure that train operating companies and Network Rail are held to account for a failure to improve.

GTR is working on a range of ongoing schemes designed to improve the underlying performance. There are more fully trained drivers on this route than ever before, and service performance is improving as a result of revised operational plans that make best use of those additional resources. Network Rail continues to deliver improvements designed to combat some of the underlying infrastructure issues on this part of the network. GTR and Network Rail are collaborating more closely to reduce the frequency and impact of trespass, which has been a type of incident affecting this route. The rail industry is implementing new solutions to reduce that risk, including by focusing, through social media channels, on the target demographic.

One question raised repeatedly by colleagues across the House has been this: what is being done to hold the operators to account? We have seen some improvement in performance. We have always been clear that GTR would be held to account for its role in the disruption earlier this year. It will make no profit in this financial year, and we have capped the profit that the operator can make for the remaining years of the franchise. It will contribute £15 million towards tangible improvements for passengers and work with local rail user groups representing the passengers most affected by the disruption in determining where the money is spent. That is in addition to the £15 million that the operator has already contributed towards compensation for passengers since the May timetable disruption. I am pleased that those steps will hold GTR to account appropriately and will directly benefit the passengers who were most affected during the disruption.

There was a timetable change last week. The December 2018 timetable change was a scaled-back one, but it was nevertheless significant because it was implemented using changed procedures, in the light of the learnings from May. Compared with the 15 July interim timetable, this new timetable, which has landed well, brings an increase in services for Welwyn Hatfield, focused mainly on the off-peak periods. Compared with before May ’18, passengers in my right hon. Friend’s constituency now see an extra service in each off-peak hour from Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield to Moorgate, additional peak services between Welwyn North and King’s Cross, and additional peak services between Brookmans Park, Welham Green and Moorgate.

[Grant Shapps]

Briefly, I do not want the House to be misled in any way by those numbers. It is certainly true and very welcome that the additional service is being laid on. The Minister mentions Welwyn Garden and Hatfield. It would be unreasonable to expect the Minister and others to know the full layout of stations, but there are other stations along this line in my constituency. Curiously, two of the smaller stations have been removed from the daytime off-peak stops entirely, whereas nearly everywhere else along the line to Moorgate is included. That is an unacceptable position.

I have been working with some of the rail user groups, which point out that it is possible to stop those trains at those stations and—particularly using the new 717 trains with the faster speed-up and slow-down times—still meet the timetable, without preventing other trains from running along the line. I would be grateful if the Minister would check back on that with his Department, to see whether we can get those other stations included.

[Andrew Jones]

Of course, I will take a number of points back from this debate, as I do with any debate, and take action to help colleagues to improve their services. I undertake right away to do just that.

We now have a timetable that appears robust and has landed well. We are continuing to monitor performance on a daily basis. My right hon. Friend has expressed concerns that Brookmans Park and Welham Green stations are seeing a reduction in services compared with the level of performance pre the May ’18 timetable, from three trains per hour during off peak to two trains per hour. Officials in the Department have discussed the issue with the operator. GTR has been using loading data and passenger count data to check whether that decision was correct. It found that very few passengers boarded at those stations during the day, and there was not the level of demand to justify three trains per hour.

The operator has to provide the timetable that most effectively balances the often competing demands of different passengers at different stations. In the latest station usage figures published only last week by the Office of Rail and Road, Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield both have more than 10 times as many entries and exits than Brookmans Park and Welham Green. In that context, it seems reasonable for GTR to provide a half-hourly off-peak service at Brookmans Park and Welham Green, and a service every 15 minutes at Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield.

[Grant Shapps]

I know the Minister has several remarks to make, but I need to challenge him on those figures. At Brookmans Park and Welham Green, passenger numbers have been increasing over a period of time. I have the numbers here, and I will leave them with the Minister. I do not accept that we should accept a worse service than pre May, when the overall purpose of the timetable is to improve the service across the network. I have now spoken to Govia, subsequent to the data that the Minister has, and suggested a system to allow trains to stop there without disrupting the rest of the timetable. If that can be done, I would appreciate the Minister taking a close interest in achieving it, as long as it does not destroy any of the rest of the network.

[Andrew Jones]

I have been looking through the usage data, so I will look at his data with some interest, because it is not entirely consistent with the picture that I have been considering. Perhaps we are looking at different timescales, but I would be grateful if he would give me the data, so that I can compare and contrast. As it stands, I know that GTR has been in discussion with local rail users and has made some changes. Previously, the two services were at 19 and 37 minutes past the hour. That meant that if a passenger missed the train at 37 minutes past, they had a long wait of 40 minutes for the next train. Now the services are at 19 and 49 minutes past the hour. Therefore, it is a half-hourly service.

My right hon. Friend mentioned weekend services, and I recognise that they remain a significant issue. I understand that the situation will be much improved as part of the next timetable change in May. That is still being worked on, but I will ensure that my right hon. Friend and colleagues along the line are kept informed of the change. In May, when there will be a bigger timetable change, more services will come online and more of the planned enhancements will become available for passengers.

Bringing Transport for London services to Welwyn Garden City was a key part of my right hon. Friend’s speech, and I know that he has campaigned for services between Welwyn and Moorgate to be transferred to TfL. I am very glad that the announcement of the Oyster and contactless extension has landed well. I am afraid I cannot give him exactly the Christmas present he asked for—the date when it will land—but I can confirm that it will happen next year. At the moment, our target date is no more specific than the autumn. If it can be brought forward, I will do that, because I recognise that it is of benefit, but it has taken a significant amount of work to get to this point. Again, I will keep him posted on progress. I know that this has been a long piece of work that he has focused on, but it is coming good for his constituents. It will allow commuters and other passengers to have seamless journeys into the capital. It is an early step in the Department’s commitment to expanding the availability of pay-as-you-go ticketing. Customers like it, it boosts usage and it makes it easier to manage peak-time flows through busy stations, so this is an important positive.

On the transfer of services to TfL, the Department is actively considering the future of the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchises. We are working closely with the Williams Rail Review, which is examining the most appropriate organisational and commercial models for the future of the rail industry. This work is at an early stage, but it is fair to say that nothing is off the table. It is a very wide-ranging review. It is an important review, because although our current system of privatisation has led to a fantastic burst of investment and passenger growth across our network, and has taken us from A to B with 1 billion more passenger journeys per year, are we really set up to take the rail industry from B to the future? How do we cater for future growth, and what is the right kind of structure for achieving that? That is what Keith Williams’s review is about, and nothing is off the table. It is a very big piece of work, and I will ensure that my right hon. Friend’s concerns and questions are fed into it.

I must mention that we will see some new trains on this route—brand new trains will enter passenger service on the Moorgate route. The class 313s that currently operate on the Great Northern line were built in the 1970s, but passenger numbers have increased substantially in the decades since, so there is a need for new trains that can meet current capacity demands. The new trains have been designed to provide much more capacity to meet the demand on the busy suburban Moorgate line. The new trains carry 943 passengers, compared with 640 for the old trains. That is automatically a significant increase in capacity.

However, it is a question not just of capacity, but of quality—a point made by my right hon. Friend. The quality of the new trains is much higher. They come with air conditioning, plug sockets, wi-fi and real-time passenger information screens. They are also designed for the improved modern safety and accessibility standards. I believe these trains will substantially improve the quality of service on the line, while addressing the core underlying need to put more capacity into the network, to serve his constituents.

I will follow up with the Department on my right hon. Friend’s point about data, and I will keep him posted. I am aware of the pressing nature of it, which he has highlighted. I thank my right hon. Friend for securing this debate.

[Grant Shapps]

I notice that the Minister is wrapping up a minute early, so I just want to press him on this point. I did not hear a commitment there, but I heard about a long, wide-ranging review with nothing off the table. However, as I pointed out, we need a decision on data provided by Govia to TfL by the end of February next year. Therefore, a long and wide-ranging review does not sound entirely hopeful. I would like to press him, if I may, a little bit harder on that. Is he saying that a long-winded review would miss that timetable?

[Andrew Jones]

The Williams review is a bigger piece of work, but I also said that I would take back the points about Govia and TfL and keep my right hon. Friend informed. That is what I was referring to, so I have not missed it. Let me just finish by saying that the performance on Great Northern after May was unacceptable. Action has been taken against GTR in respect of that, and we continue to monitor performance closely. Additional Moorgate services were introduced last week, providing additional capacity in Welwyn Hatfield. I hope that 2019 will see further improvements, including the very popular introduction of pay-as-you-go ticketing. I will follow up all the points raised by my right hon. Friend and keep him posted.