Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Tuesday 19th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

In the Budget we provided more than £100 million extra to help with the problem of homelessness and the particular problem of rough sleeping. We have provided money for second-stage accommodation for people as they leave hostels, to ensure that they have secure accommodation to go to. I am always happy to listen to further representations or ideas from the hon. Gentleman or any other Member.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

The Treasury cannot even get its forecast for growth and the deficit correct for next year. Does the Chancellor realise that instructing his officials to produce a speculative report based on thoroughly tendentious figures about what might or might not happen in the event of Brexit simply belittles the reputation of the Treasury for economic competence and forecasting? Instead of relying on fear, why does he not give us his vision, compared with our vision of a free people in a free Parliament, controlling our own borders and leading the world towards free trade?

[Mr Osborne]

Our positive vision is that by being part of a reformed EU we can raise living standards, create more jobs and make sure that consumers have access to lower prices. We have set out in the Treasury analysis a range of possibilities for the alternatives that might happen if Britain leaves the European Union. All of them would make Britain permanently poorer, but if my hon. Friend and the leave campaign want to produce their own plan and their own analysis, then be my guest.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

The Chair of the Treasury Committee makes an important point. Of course, on only five occasions in recent decades has the House of Lords blocked or rejected a statutory instrument, but never on a financial matter. We heard a whole range of opinions yesterday—from Lord Butler, the former Cabinet Secretary, to constitutional experts such as Vernon Bogdanor—telling us that this was unprecedented. We are going to have to address it—the Prime Minister has made that very clear. That is what we have to do to make sure that the elected House of Commons is responsible for the tax-and-spend decisions that affect the people of this country.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

I have written to the Chancellor about a lady in my constituency, Stacey, to whom I have talked at length. She earns only £11,000 a year and says that £31 a week is being cut from her budget. I know that the Chancellor will meet me to discuss that. Surely the point is that we should have the conversations here, and he will listen, and that ultimately we will be held responsible and chucked out. What is not right is that unelected people, who never have to stand again, should decide how the people are taxed and how we spend our money.

[Mr Osborne]

I agree with my hon. Friend on the constitutional point, which is a matter that the whole House of Commons will want to address. I take very seriously the point he raises about his constituent. I have made it clear that we will listen with regard to how we make the transition to a lower welfare, higher wage economy. When we introduced controversial welfare changes in the last Parliament, such as the removal of child benefit from higher earners and the introduction of the welfare cap, we made changes, having listened to Parliament, to smooth the transition to both those important reforms. Of course we will listen to the House of Commons in this respect, but the end goal is clear: this country cannot have an unlimited welfare budget that squeezes out other areas of public expenditure. We cannot have a situation whereby we have 1% of the world’s population and 4% of the world’s economy, but 7% of the world’s welfare budget.

Charter for Budget Responsibility

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

The last time it was not in deficit was when people followed Tory spending plans: there was a surplus at the end of the 1990s and 2000. That is what we advocate again.

At the moment of maximum danger five years ago, as much of the rest of Europe became engulfed in a sovereign debt crisis, Britain faced a choice: did we have the resolve to cut our spending, cut our deficit and set a course for economic stability, or did our country go on borrowing and spending our way to economic ruin?

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

But surely we cannot relax for a moment. When we say we have cut the deficit by half that is good, but it gives the impression that the problem is solved and we are still borrowing £90 billion a year. The debt is still at about £1.7 trillion. Therefore, we cannot relax for a moment and we cannot allow there to be any sort of Government who let the anchor off. We therefore have to say no to a Labour Government.

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Having brought the deficit down, we have to complete the job. We have to run a surplus and get our national debt down—that is what this debate is about. We remember Opposition Members in this House five years ago urging on us a ruinous course of more borrowing and more spending, the very same people who had presided over the borrowing and spending that had put Britain into such a perilous position.

EU Budget (Surcharge)

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Monday 10th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I agree that this was a totally unacceptable approach from the previous European Commission. To be fair to the new budget Commissioner, she has engaged constructively and got the rules changed so that it does not happen again. On the hon. Lady’s comment about finding a serious commentator who thought the rebate might not apply, I know the shadow Chancellor is not a serious commentator but he did not at any point raise this issue. The calculation on interest payments that he used in The Guardian on Friday was based on the assumption that we would pay £1.7 billion—that is how he came up with the number that he used to make his point. As a result, he did not expect the rebate to be applied or to be applied at this rate.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

The shadow Chancellor says that this reduction is entirely down to the rebate. So, if Tony Blair had not given away half the rebate, would we have got a 100% reduction?

Autumn Statement

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Thursday 5th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

The people who sucked up to the bankers and brought the British banking system to its knees are sitting on the Labour Benches. [Interruption.] The shadow Chancellor shakes his head. He is in denial. He was the City Minister when RBS bought ABN AMRO and when Northern Rock was selling 125% mortgages. I agree with the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) that working people have paid a very high price for that catastrophic economic failure.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

In warmly congratulating the Chancellor on putting hard-working families and enterprise growth at the centre of the statement, may I draw his attention to those people in hard-working families who occupy key managerial positions and who typically earn just over £40,000 a year? More and more of those families are being dragged into paying higher rate income tax—perhaps as many as 2 million by the end of this Parliament. I ask him to bear those people in mind because they are the key to our recovery.

[Mr Osborne]

I agree with my hon. Friend that we want to help people on middle incomes as well as those on low incomes. Many of the measures, in particular those on fuel duty and rail fares, will help those people. The personal allowance is now passed through so that those who pay the higher rate of income tax, although not those who pay the top rate, get the benefit if they earn less than £100,000. The benefit is therefore flowing through to those people as well. That is all part of what we are doing to help working people in both the middle and lower income brackets.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Tuesday 5th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

T8. As you know, Mr Speaker, I am of a nervous disposition. I was therefore alarmed this year—not three years ago—to hear predictions that 1 million jobs would be lost, there would be a decade of lost growth and the recovery would be choked off as a result of the Government’s plans. Will the Chancellor allay my fears and explain what has happened in the real world?

[Mr George Osborne]

My hon. Friend is right that there were a lot of predictions from the Opposition Dispatch Box. They said that there would be a decade of lost growth, but the economy is now growing and we have had the fastest growth in the G7 this year. They predicted that 1 million jobs would be lost, but 1.4 million jobs have been created in the private sector and unemployment is down. Above all, they advocated—indeed, they continue to advocate, because it was in the speech that the shadow Chancellor made yesterday—increased borrowing, which would lead to higher taxes and higher interest rates. The biggest threat to the British recovery is sitting right opposite me.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Tuesday 11th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

1. What plans he has for future private finance initiatives.

[The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne)]

Last week, the Government announced the details of a new approach to replace the private finance initiative with private finance initiative 2, which is a more transparent approach to securing investment in public infrastructure. The Government will become a shareholder in future projects. We can all see now that the public sector was sharing the risk under PFI. We will now ensure that we also share in the rewards.

[Mr Leigh]

I looked at PFI for nine years on the Public Accounts Committee. I am sure people will agree that it was a good system that was scandalously misused to rip off tomorrow’s taxpayers for the sake of today and to rip off the public sector in favour of the private sector. How can the Chancellor assure the House that, if he is to use PFI 2 to pay for large infrastructure projects, we will not repeat the mistakes of the past?

[Mr Osborne]

I sat on the PAC under my hon. Friend’s chairmanship and I remember our investigations into various hospital and prison schemes that had gone wrong. As we saw it, there were three problems. First, contracts were very inflexible, so it cost a huge amount to do things such as change light bulbs or clean hospitals and the like. Secondly, the private sector got all the upside of the projects and made more money than expected. Thirdly, there was no control on the overall off-balance sheet total. We are addressing all three: we are creating more flexible and transparent contracts; we will share in the upside by taking a public sector stake and having the public sector on the board; and at the Budget we will set out a control total for PFI 2 liabilities.

Financial Services Bill

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Monday 6th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

Well, that is a bit like the John Cleese sketch—the right hon. Gentleman started it by creating the biggest banking crisis in this country’s history. We are trying to clear it up. That is what this Bill is about. In all those interventions, we heard not one word about whether he will support what we are doing to clear up the mess he created.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Does not the ding-dong of the last four or five minutes illustrate the dangers of political interference in regulation? Once we get back to the subject of the Bank of England, and given that the top 1% of taxpayers provide 28% of total taxes, can we have regulation in the future less by populism on bonuses, salaries and the rest, and more by the raising of the right eyebrow of the Governor of the Bank of England?

[Mr Osborne]

The key issue in our regulatory system that we are seeking to restore is judgment by the regulator, and I will explain how the Bill will enable us to do that. I agree with my hon. Friend that the financial services are an incredibly important industry for this country. They employ more people than any other industry in Britain and, crucially, its proper regulation is not only good for the economy, but essential to prevent taxpayers from being exposed to what they have been exposed to in recent years.

Banking Commission Report

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Monday 19th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I do not think that it automatically follows that if we ring-fence the banks, we double the number of bankers. It is our intention, yes, to have a successful financial services industry, which is very important in Derbyshire, Cheshire, where my constituency is, the west midlands and Scotland, as well as in the City of London.

However, we do not want our entire economy to be in hock to the City of London; that is what we are seeking to avoid. We do not want to put all our bets on the City of London. That is what happened over the last 13 years, and it went disastrously wrong. The Government are determined to build up other sectors of the economy, including manufacturing and small businesses. The very fact that later today we are debating the Government’s apprenticeship programme shows our commitment as a Government to building up those other industries.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

After these reforms, will our banks be more or less regulated than their international competitors?

[Mr Osborne]

In certain respects, they will be more regulated compared with some other regimes. Obviously, the ring-fencing requirement that we are introducing is not present in every other financial centre. However, it is an appropriate course of action for the UK, given the size of our banking system relative to our GDP—it is 500% of our GDP; the United States banking system is only 100% of its GDP. As I said, there is now quite a lot of international interest in what we are doing, so we may find that other financial centres follow our lead.

Independent Banking Commission Report

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Monday 12th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

As I said in my initial statement, an important part of this report—it will not be at the top of the evening news tonight, but it is important—is the proposals to enhance competition on the high street and create a new challenger bank, so that customers have real choices. There is also a proposal for a free service that would enable anyone who wanted to switch their current account to do so almost immediately, with all their direct debits and all the other things attached to their account switched too. That will really help customers to shop around—at the moment, customers do not switch their current accounts because they think that it would be too difficult and cumbersome—and is one of the most retail-friendly proposals in the report.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

If there is one class of people more unpopular than MPs, it is bankers—and I know where all the populist pressure is coming from. However, regulators do not create wealth; they stifle it. Does my right hon. Friend acknowledge that we have to live in the real world and that London’s pre-eminent position is based on the fact that we have the lightest regulatory regime in Europe? Will he undertake to preserve that for the sake of our wealth creation and not kill the goose that lays the golden egg?

[Mr Osborne]

Well, it was not much of a golden egg, unfortunately, in recent years. It is important for this country that London, Edinburgh and other centres remain globally competitive and that London remains the pre-eminent global centre for finance. Some of the changes taking place in the City, such as the one I mentioned, involving trying to develop an offshore renminbi market, are all part of London being a competitive place to do business. However, being a competitive place in which to do financial services does not mean that there has to be a huge taxpayer subsidy for universal banks and their retail banking arms in the UK. John Vickers explicitly deals with the competition issue. People might have expected him to come to a different conclusion on this, but one of the interesting things he said was that we should not impose additional capital-to-equity ratios on investment banks, precisely because he does not want us to make them internationally uncompetitive.

Sovereign Grant Bill

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Thursday 14th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Leigh]

I do not know the exact truth about that particular aspect.

[Mr George Osborne]

The part about my involvement is completely untrue.

[Mr Leigh]

All that I know—the Public Accounts Committee having had all those accounts over the past two decades—is that steps are constantly being taken to deliver a better-value-for-money monarchy. If that is not true, why has the cost gone down from £49 million to £34 million? I shall sit down now, because we are only on clause 1 stand part.

Bank Bonuses

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Tuesday 11th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

The deal that the previous Government signed with RBS as a condition of being part of the asset protection scheme stated that it should not pay bonuses in 2009, but that for the bonuses awarded in 2010—the period we are talking about now—it should pay the market rate. That was the deal that Labour signed up to. I am trying to reduce the RBS bonus pool, and I have made it very clear—as has the Prime Minister—that it should be a back-marker, not a market leader.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Is not the problem with the leading bankers that they are often arsonists and firemen rolled into one? The trouble with the previous Government is that they left the arsonists in charge of the haystack. They bailed them out, but they did not protect the depositors adequately, and now they want to shoot the firemen. What is that going to achieve?

[Mr Osborne]

Well, I think we still have the haystack at the end of all that. My hon. Friend makes an important point, however. Of course I understand and share the feeling of anger that if we do not get a change of behaviour, these bonuses could be paid, and that is what we are addressing. However, this House will have an equally important—indeed, possibly even more important—issue to deal with later this year: the report from the Independent Commission on Banking, which we have established, again in the face of Labour opposition, to look at the whole issue of “too big to fail”. That is what my hon. Friend was talking about. The commission will look at how we can ensure that the British taxpayer does not stand behind the banks, but that the banks can be allowed to fail in an orderly way without bringing down the British economy.

Autumn Forecast

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Monday 29th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I said right at the beginning of my remarks that these are economic forecasts and that we should treat them with the caution with which one should treat all economic forecasts. At least we explicitly acknowledge that and the forecasts are independently produced. What we have here is a central forecast; previously, Chancellors just gave a number and asserted that that was the forecast come hell or high water. That is not what the OBR is doing today. However, one can take confidence that its growth forecast for next year is in line with those of most independent commentators and forecasters. It happens to be very close to the numbers that the European Commission produced today, which were not available to the OBR or the British Government until today. We can have confidence that it is part of a group of people who look to the UK and see it growing sustainably over coming years and jobs being created.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

All the talk is of cuts, but with spending still rising despite these so-called cuts and with debt as a proportion of GDP rising to a staggering 70%, will my right hon. Friend remind the House that, to coin a phrase, there is no alternative to further massive efficiency savings, particularly in ring-fenced Departments such as Health where there has been a catastrophic decline in productivity in the last 10 years?

[Mr Osborne]

I certainly agree with my hon. Friend that an essential part of this programme for public expenditure is getting greater productivity in the public services. As the former Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, he has much to offer. The Treasury is engaging with him on this, I hope, and will engage further with him in the coming months. He is absolutely right that, in a period when there is less money available, if we do not have reform, we will have deterioration in the service. That is why we have got to have reforms and why Parliament is being asked to support those reforms in the next few months.

Financial Assistance (Ireland)

Debate between George Osborne and Edward Leigh

Monday 22nd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I seem to remember plenty of Labour Ministers standing at the Dispatch Box praising what Ireland was doing to make itself competitive, to reduce its corporate tax rates and to create a flexible labour market. That is the tragedy—it did so much in that direction to make itself competitive, but it did not properly regulate its banking system. We in the UK know the price of that.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

On reflection, does the Chancellor believe that our Irish friends might have been better off remaining faithful to sterling rather than eloping with the more flighty euro, and does a warm welcome await our friends if and when they return?

[Mr Osborne]

I am a believer in national sovereignty, so I do not propose to tell other countries what they should do with their currencies. I would just make this observation, since this has been a debate I have heard in recent years: Ireland has all its sovereign debt denominated in euros.