Flood Defence Allocations

George Mudie Excerpts

Wednesday 9th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

I am well aware of the concerns of the people of Leeds, which have been well articulated by the Members who represent that city. That scheme is hugely expensive and I do not doubt that it will bring benefits to the city. I am happy to meet Members on both sides of the House to discuss it. We want to work with the local authority and other agencies to find parts of the scheme with which we might proceed sooner than others. It will not go from conception to commissioning in one year because it is such a massive scheme, but we want to bring it forward as quickly as we can. We have to make sure that we have value for taxpayers’ money at the heart of what we are doing so that we can protect as many homes as possible across the country.

[Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab)]

I am grateful for those words from the Minister, but is he aware that Leeds city centre came within centimetres of being flooded in 2000, according to Environment Agency information, and that it had numerous near misses in 2004, 2007 and 2008? Will the Minister agree to meet Leeds MPs to discuss this? Leeds is the largest city in the north and we cannot allow it to be knocked out by flooding or to be prioritised below households. It is the major economic centre of west Yorkshire.

[Richard Benyon]

I absolutely understand that. The hon. Gentleman can come to meet me if he wishes to hear more details about this. The scheme will cost £250,000 or thereabouts per household it protects. That is an enormous amount of money and I do not deny its importance, particularly to the people of Leeds, but we have to look at it from the perspective of the whole area. If it can unlock regeneration or benefits to that city there might be opportunities under the new payment-for-outcomes scheme.

Flood Risk Management

George Mudie Excerpts

Wednesday 9th February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab)]

It would be unfair of those of us from Leeds to take up all the time, because flooding is such an important matter, which affects people directly and in such a traumatic way, and other hon. Members must have their opportunity. I will therefore be very quick.

I had the opportunity to raise a question about this issue with the Minister on the Floor of the House earlier this afternoon. I should say that I am not making a political point. I will certainly not get involved in any political nonsense about which Government spent more. We are where we are, and we can settle political differences and arguments elsewhere. We are talking about flooding, which, as we all know, affects people in a very personal way. I say that in my defence. What I would also say, however, in what I hope will be a brief speech is that one difficulty with flooding assistance is that it seems to relate, on a cost-benefit basis, to the number of households. That is where the Minister and I were at cross purposes earlier this afternoon.

To illustrate what my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) was saying, let me use the words of the flood risk manager in Leeds, who puts the case better than I could:

“the Government should treat this scheme as a special case”—

which is fine; we would expect him to say that. He continued by saying that

“a major flood to Leeds could set the economic recovery of the north back many years and the cost of that would far exceed the cost of the works.”

My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East mentioned the £500 million of damage that could be done. I do not know whether the Minister has been to Leeds, but the river runs through the business and retail centre—the river and the canal run below the main train station—and it is a compact city centre, which flooding would damage tremendously.

The Environment Agency brief—when I mentioned it previously, the Secretary of State was talking to the Minister and seemed to disagree—stated:

“The city centre escaped inundation by a matter of centimetres in 2000, and there were further near misses in 2004, 2007 and 2008.”

I simply make the point to the Minister that the major economic centre and engine for growth for millions of people in west Yorkshire is the Leeds centre, and it has come disastrously near being put out of operation in a major way. The train station is built over the rivers. The 2000 flood threatened electricity supply in the city centre, which, in turn, threatened the major Leeds general infirmary. This is a question of a major catastrophe. The Minister will not think I am doing him any favours, but I do not want him to be on world or national television in his wellies standing looking at a flooded national city—the largest in the north. I do not want that to happen, for the sake of the city and its people and the surrounding towns and cities. That is how close we are, if the matter is judged on number of households and cost.

We are where we are. It is accepted that any Government would have to pull back the deficit, whatever the time scale. These are difficult times and priorities must be set. I understand the situation. I even offer something additional—without being patronising. I shall say this so that the Minister can use it against me—and the city—but I think that the scheme was designed in slightly better times. I question the £190 million scheme, especially given the number of schemes lining up throughout the city. In the Chamber, the Minister offered a meeting. I should welcome one, but its outcome would be to make it clear to the Environment Agency and the city, within agreed parameters, if possible, what type of scheme and expenditure are realistic in this day and age. We would say “Go away and if you can get something within those parameters we will look at the design work.” We are not speaking about this year or next year. The design work would be started on a more modest, but realistic, scheme. That would help.

There is an additional way in which it would help. The Minister will appreciate the problems. Quite rightly the previous and present Governments have told the city to get private involvement. Businesses and houses are being saved, and there is development, so they have told it to put some funding in and it has found, it thinks, £20 million. That is a lot of money but when it is compared with a £190 million scheme one might say, “I think you’ll have to do better,” and that causes problems. What if we were all to meet in a room and say, “Let’s get real with one another; let’s get this scheme down”? The city centre must be protected and we cannot have a national economic asset knocked out—but the work should not be at any price. We should get a realistic price and a realistic public contribution, and all agree to do the work as quickly as possible.

As I am chairing a Committee upstairs at a quarter to 4, I shall have to leave the debate, and I give my apologies now—I am not leaving out of disrespect. However, I should hope that the Minister would see my remarks as helpful. They are heartfelt on behalf of the city of Leeds, and west Yorkshire.