Financial Risk Checks for Gambling

Debate between George Freeman and Matt Hancock

Monday 26th February 2024 Westminster Hall

[George Freeman]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady, who makes a good point. They are beautiful and what a joy it is to watch them exercising, whether in Malton in Yorkshire or wherever else around the country. The sight of horses exercising in preparation for racing is part of the rural economy.

Secondly, I want to make the point that horseracing, as an activity and an industry, is a jewel in the crown of our global soft power. The truth is that, having grown up in Newmarket as a child, I have watched as that town and its horseracing have become very reliant—over-reliant, I would suggest—on a few very wealthy families. Those families have done an amazing service to our sport, but we have to make sure that we are not reliant on a very small number of individuals to maintain the viability of an entire industry. That point puts this debate in a wider context.

Crucially, I also want to highlight that there is a very serious problem in our society of addiction to gambling, particularly online gambling, and there is a growing body of evidence—I say this as the former Minister for Life Sciences and as somebody who has had a career in medical research—that the causes of such addictive behaviour and cycles of addiction are not simply based on repeat activity. They are a symptom of much deeper underlying causes, which are often genetic and nearly always neurological. There are a whole series of conditions that drive that underlying cycle of addictive behaviour. It is not that someone has a bet on a horse, then a second bet and it is entirely addictive. Indeed, in my own experience, betting on horses is quite the opposite; I have very seldom made much money doing it and I very seldom carry on doing it with that in mind. No, that is not what drives the addictive behaviour; it is underpinning neuroscience and wider conditions. As a society we really need to take those factors very seriously.

[Matt Hancock]

Is there not the more specific distinction, which the hon. Gentleman almost drew out, that the placing of a bet and then waiting many minutes as a minimum for a result is neurologically distinct from a bet that gives an immediate hit? Where the repeat bet would be based on the physiological immediacy of the previous result, horseracing breaks that and therefore has a different neurological impact in relation to addiction. Would it therefore not be right in law and in policy to completely separate the proposals for online games of chance from the wonderful sport of horseracing? It would be easy to do in law—let’s just split the two.

[George Freeman]

The right hon. Gentleman anticipates the logic of the argument I was building towards—he is exactly right. That is why if we are seriously thinking of tackling this curse of addictive online gambling, surely we should be looking at a whole range of other behaviours and products. The proposal seems to be a disproportionate way of tackling a real problem, if indeed that is what it is. Others have mentioned the logical consistency of extending these checks on alcohol, tobacco, car hire purchases and—dare I say it—mortgages, and all sorts of things that we might say people cannot afford. I worry that this could be the thin end of a very big wedge in which the state decides that it is its job not to regulate properly, but to start asking whether people can afford to do something. That is an Orwellian dystopia that I do not want to live in.

The truth is we have to think properly about the sustainable resilience of racing. I absolutely echo the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson): prize money is falling fast, costs have risen fast and are stubbornly high, and competition is eating our lunch. If we look to Irish and French racing, we see that we are haemorrhaging from a serious industry. This proposal would not make a small reform to a healthy industry—the industry is struggling and it needs our help, but I am worried that the law of unintended consequences will make the situation worse.

I want to make a point about technology. It has often been asserted that we do not have the technology to do these checks properly. That is right at the moment, but would it not be an amazing thing if we decided to use technology properly—we are already an AI powerhouse—to start to analyse addictive behaviour and look at the trades on digital betting that indicate such behaviour? Over 70 markers of harmful gambling have been identified in studies, 16 of which really drive this activity. I suggest there might be an opportunity for us to use technology better to tackle those behaviours online that drive the problem we are trying to solve.

I echo the comments of the right hon. Member for West Suffolk on track racing, which I would go so far as to say is one of the best ways to introduce people to responsible gambling. I remember taking my two children to the 2000 Guineas and giving them £5 each, and they decided to put it together on an each-way bet. It was a smart move; they are clever children. Even more clever, my son decided to take my daughter’s advice, because she knows about horses, and he looked at the odds, because he knows about numbers, and they put £5 each way on Galileo Gold, who stormed to victory. They learned a lot that day about gambling. They saw people who had drunk too much and who were losing too much. They didn’t. I took the money and gave it to them. They discovered a lot, and on-track gambling is a fabulous way of getting people to realise that most of the decisions we take in life are a gamble one way or another, and it is how we deal with them that really matters.

I am not here in any way for the health of the gambling industry. I am interested in the health of UK racing and the real identification of the at-risk addiction that we see cursing so much of our society, in particular those games of chance that have driven such addiction. I simply say to the Minister that I know he has a difficult job on his hands. I have sat at that Dispatch Box with a packed Westminster Hall calling for reform. The Prime Minister, in North Yorkshire, understands the importance of the industry. The Secretary of State’s constituency is next to Newmarket—in fact, she has the breeder of Galileo Gold in her constituency—and understands it. It is not too late to change tact and come back with a serious package of measures designed for the twin problems of the sustainability of racing’s finances and the genuine opportunity for this country to lead in harnessing technology and smart regulation for the tackling of gambling addiction. If not, I urge the Minister to look seriously at the net loss provisions, which are too low. When an industry warns that something will cost it £50 million, we have a duty to listen.

Large Solar Farms

Debate between George Freeman and Matt Hancock

Wednesday 9th March 2022 Westminster Hall

[Matt Hancock]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, because I have made several interventions. On the point about fire safety, will he take on board, and comment on, the need for transparency about past fires? I should also have mentioned in my speech that the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South East Cambridgeshire (Lucy Frazer), cannot speak because she is a member of the Government, but she wholeheartedly endorses my views and is a great campaigner for her constituency when it comes to the Sunnica plant—and more broadly.

[George Freeman]

I will happily pick that point up. My right hon. Friend invites me—wisely, perhaps, given the time—to clarify that at the end of this debate, I will raise all the points that have been made today with the relevant Ministers, including, perhaps, the Minister for fire safety. When such a number of colleagues meet in the Chamber, their points deserve to be heard and passed through.

I want to pick up on the planning point. Colleagues will be aware, but those listening may not be, that planning applications for projects below 50 MW are determined by the local planning system. Many hundreds of them around the country have been approved satisfactorily. Projects up to 350 MW in Wales are devolved, with decisions made either by local authorities or the Welsh Government. Planning in Scotland and Northern Ireland is fully devolved. For projects over 50 MW in England and over 350 MW in Wales, planning decisions are made by the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Freeman and Matt Hancock

Tuesday 7th May 2019 Commons Chamber

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

7. What steps he is taking to improve the patient experience through the use of digital technology.

[The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Matt Hancock)]

Providing patients with modern digital services that are safe, effective, convenient and personalised is central to our NHS long-term plan.

[George Freeman]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer and for the energy that he brings to this brief. Does he agree that digital health not only improves healthcare systems but also provides a platform for place-based and population-based prevention, better diagnosis, patient empowerment, novel mental health therapies and accelerated access to the innovative treatments that I introduced as a Minister? This is now being pioneered in some parts of the country. Will he meet me and the Birmingham health partners to look at an interesting idea for digital place-based health impact bonds?

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, I am always happy to meet my hon. Friend to talk about interesting new policy innovations like that. It sounds right up my street. In fact, I met the Mayor of the West Midlands combined authority to discuss this subject only last week. There is a huge amount of enthusiasm and energy in this policy area, which will enable us to improve patients’ lives across Birmingham and, indeed, the whole country.

NHS Long-term Plan

Debate between George Freeman and Matt Hancock

Monday 7th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I strongly agree with the hon. Gentleman. For those who have rare diseases, diagnosis takes seven years, on average, and genomics can bring that down to a matter of seven days, in the best cases. We are the world leaders in genomics and we are going to stay that way. We have reached the 100,000 genome sequence and we are going to take it to 1 million, with 500,000 from the NHS and 500,000 from the UK Biobank. He is absolutely right. This is one of the bright shining stars of the future of healthcare, and Britain is going to lead the way.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

As a former Health Minister, I congratulate the Secretary of State and the Government on this statement. I particularly pay tribute to his work on mental health—I am proud that under this Government it looks as though we are finally beginning to close the gap and stop mental health being the Cinderella service—and on early diagnosis of cancer. I also welcome his espousal of the work on genomics, which I, as a former Minister for life sciences and health technology, and others were involved in setting up. Does he agree that if we are really going to drive the revolution of accountability, productivity and local engagement, the accountable care pilots offer us the chance to really measure and drive digital communities of healthcare where we reward communities that promote health and wellbeing?

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, I do. I pay tribute to the work that my hon. Friend did in putting together the areas of the NHS where this is already working. We want to spread that success more broadly across the NHS to make sure that we seize these very exciting opportunities as well as deal with the important day-to-day challenges that the NHS faces.

Broadband Universal Service Obligation

Debate between George Freeman and Matt Hancock

Thursday 15th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

We have been through this before; 10 megabits is our approach for the minimum. The hon. Gentleman will have to wait and see what Ofcom has to say.

I will address a partisan point that was brought into an otherwise pretty harmonious debate by the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas). The previous Labour Government did bring in a universal service obligation for connectivity that was set at 28.8 kilobits, but it was unenforced. The hon. Gentleman should stop his point scoring and stick to the bit where he said how brilliantly we are doing now with the ambition that we have put in place.

I gently point out to SNP Members that the Scottish Government are responsible for procurement in Scotland, and it is a pity that procurement there is behind almost every other area of the country. We have been doing everything that we can to push them along, but they really ought to answer for slow provision in Scotland, and I am sure that they will.

I turn to the future and the two f’s: fibre and 5G. Only 2% of premises in the country have a full fibre connection. The hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry) talked about high levels of fibre delivery in Scotland, but that is not true. We have high levels of part-fibre delivery across the UK—it is 90% now, and it is going up to 95%—but that is not full fibre or fibre to the premises. More full fibre is being delivered elsewhere, and we are determined to match that. The autumn statement announced £1 billion for broadband and 5G, and we will consult shortly on exactly how that will be spent.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way; it gives me the chance to thank him sincerely on behalf of my constituents, because my constituency has gone from 25% to 70% fast broadband. Does he agree that we may need creative ways of ensuring that the 5% or 10% of areas, including the most rural, that may never benefit from fibre can get alternative provision?

[Matt Hancock]

My hon. Friend is completely right. We should be open-minded about technologies such as wi-fi. I have two and a half minutes left, so I am going to rattle through some more points.

I congratulate BDUK and Chris Townsend, who has run it for a good period of time, for their incredible delivery. The hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley was not right to say that BDUK delivers only via BT; there are now six providers. BDUK has done a magnificent job since it was set up by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wantage. Getting mobile connectivity on roads and rail is also incredibly important, and we are pushing that hard. EE has a contract to reach every inch of road in the country by the end of next year. Finally, several Members mentioned business; part of the £1 billion announced in the autumn statement is for ensuring that we have much better delivery for business. That drive is broadly supported.

I hope that I have answered as many points as possible. We will set out further details on the USO shortly. We look forward to working with Members from across the House to ensure that everybody gets the connectivity that they need.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Freeman and Matt Hancock

Thursday 24th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

Yes, of course. I thoroughly enjoyed my visit to my hon. Friend’s constituency. Many people raised the issue of Siemens, which would invest not only in the UK, but, through the supply chain, in many small businesses. I will look in detail at what he says.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

May I congratulate the Government on the great news that 102,000 new businesses were created last year, bringing the total to an all-time record of 4.9 million? Does the Minister agree that many first-time entrepreneurs and start-ups find that compliance with a whole raft of Government red tape, often designed in Europe and gold-plated in Whitehall, is a genuine barrier? Will he meet me and representatives of entrepreneurial start-up companies to see what we might do to ease the burden on start-ups in particular?

[Matthew Hancock]

I am always delighted to meet my hon. Friend, so I would love to do that. We are always looking at how to ease the burden further. We have reduced the burden on business enormously. The one in, two out rules are in place and are working, but there is always more to do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Freeman and Matt Hancock

Thursday 7th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

Not yet, but they are about to. UK Export Finance is establishing a series of regional advisers who through banks, lawyers and accountants will reach more SMEs. That is part and parcel of a widespread message going out to all businesses that if they want help exporting, UKTI is there. The trade seminars in Members’ constituencies will be an important part of that.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that one of the biggest frustrations for small businesses is the Government’s tendency to launch a plethora of schemes and press releases to go with them? I congratulate the Government on holding a bonfire of the brochures in the life sciences sector, and on setting up a dedicated life science investment office that is staffed by two industry experts who support the Department’s generalists in providing targeted advice.

[Matthew Hancock]

My hon. Friend makes that comment far better than I could.

Industrial Policy and Manufacturing

Debate between George Freeman and Matt Hancock

Thursday 22nd November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

That is a profound point about the need to avoid groupthink, with which I profoundly agree.

My hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw) argued that we need to identify the best. He was passionate about enterprise and I heard his message. He will know that I am a huge supporter of enterprise zones.

I enjoyed listening to the historical debate between the hon. Members for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) and for Coventry North West (Mr Robinson), who are continuing their debate as I speak.

My hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Sir Gerald Howarth) asked a series of questions and brought his huge experience to bear, especially in relation to defence. The defence growth partnership is a BIS-led cross-Government partnership, which the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon), leads. On the specific point about R and D tax credits moving to above the line, the Treasury has consulted on that and is deciding on the detail. I am also grateful to my hon. Friend for helping me with the answer on the joint strike fighter, which I will come to in a moment.

Everybody in the House was struck by the fluent and impressive speech by the new hon. Member for Corby (Andrew Sawford). He described passionately his membership of the Co-operative party as well as the Labour party. My grandfather was part of the co-operative movement. The hon. Gentleman will no doubt want to contact my hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman), who takes a lead on such issues among Government Members.

The hon. Member for Corby advanced the argument for the living wage powerfully. He spoke of the need to ensure that domestic British people have the skills to take the jobs that are available. Although more than 1 million private sector jobs have been created under this Government, we still have a huge amount of work to do. As Under-Secretary of State for Skills, my prime motivation is to ensure that British people have the skills and ability to do whatever it takes to get the growing number of jobs available. The hon. Member for Corby spoke with great passion, and all those present in the debate will have clocked that—well, let me put it like this: the attitude he showed to the Chief Whip on the Opposition Front Bench, and his ability to ingratiate himself with her, shows that he may not be on the Back Benches for long.

An industrial policy is central to achieving the goal of growth and enterprise, and there is broad consensus on that from the CBI to the TUC, as well as across the House. The reason for that is simple. Any Government in a mature economy has an industrial policy—as the hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) and my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) argued, a Government cannot choose not to have one. We have an industrial strategy but the question is whether we have it by default or design.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford praised the Dutch system, from which we have much to learn. In my few weeks in this job I have recognised and warmly welcomed the constructive approach taken by the hon. Member for West Bromwich West to chairing the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee. He argued for a cross-departmental approach, and the growth committee on which I sit is an important part of that. He also argued for a cross-party approach, and not only do I agree with that, but I think hon. Members have demonstrated such an approach today. In particular, I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman’s realism and ability to accept failures on the part of all past Governments. As he said, manufacturing halved as a percentage of GDP, and the passionate argument about that and the history around it was also put forward by the right hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton (Mr Meacher).

Crucially, an industrial strategy looks both at and across sectors, and we must ensure that we allow for the challenge of sectors that are yet to be dreamed of. Let me touch on four cross-cutting themes, as well as on sectors such as the automotive industry, life sciences and aerospace, in which we are pushing rapidly ahead with the publication of individual papers.

[George Freeman]

On the point about convergence, does the Minister agree that one of the most exciting things in life sciences is the way that medical, food and clean environmental technologies are beginning to merge? I recently visited a plant in Norfolk that converts agricultural waste into fuel for powering Lotuses made in Norfolk. That is a powerful illustration of convergence.

[Matthew Hancock]

Yes indeed, and across supply chains too. As my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Neil Carmichael) powerfully said, it is vital that we bring whole supply chains together when thinking about the sectoral approach. There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Some sectors will do well on their own; others need a long-term strategic partnership. My hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) called for a document that brings things together in each sector, and that is happening.

Offshore Gambling and the Horseracing Levy

Debate between George Freeman and Matt Hancock

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

My hon. Friend makes some important points. A future for the levy built on funding that is not onshore will be a system built like a house without foundations. Unless we deal with the problem of gambling going offshore before we tackle the wider problems of the levy, which is a broken system, we will not be able to build a strong and sustainable future for racing in this country. Over the past few years, the levy has fallen from £110 million to £59 million last year. We were delighted when the Minister announced that this year’s levy would be between £75 million and £80 million, but now, halfway through the season, it looks as though the levy contributions will in fact be less than £60 million—lower than last year—and will be lower still next year. Crucially, that means that prize money in British races is falling fast.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s leadership on this issue, and I would like to align my comments with those of my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Claire Perry). This sport is often referred to as the sport of kings—its more glamorous side is often the side seen by the public—but is it not also a vital part of the wider rural economy? As with so many other industries, its grass roots are essential to its continuation, and in fact the effect on prize money at the bottom is even more severe. Prizes are falling and small trainers and owners are struggling to maintain the industry.

[Matthew Hancock]

My hon. Friend makes an important contribution. Prize money is critical to the sport and its future, but it has fallen by almost a half in just the last two years. Also, betting duty—the tax that the Exchequer takes—has fallen from £420 million to £340 million, so it, too, is on the decline. I am a low-tax Tory, but I do not think that we were talking about that.