Artificial Intelligence: Intellectual Property Rights

Debate between George Freeman and Damian Collins

Wednesday 1st February 2023 Westminster Hall

[Damian Collins]

My hon. Friend is right that there are exemptions in other jurisdictions, but none is as wide as the ones that we have set. The most comparable jurisdiction is Singapore. While Singapore has many great qualities, it is not a net exporter of music, nor does it have a creative economy on the same scale as ours. We have been discussing the Intellectual Property Office’s response to a consultation, in which it recommended introducing these measures. Am I right to take from what the Minister said that the Government are now minded not to introduce these measures, and so that for the time being, the status quo prevails until such other proposals may be considered?

[George Freeman]

That is exactly right. I will come to some of the lessons from that in a moment, but I am happy to confirm that.

In the consultation carried out by the Intellectual Property Office, a number of consultees made the case that UK copyright law was too restrictive, and was impeding investment in AI. The point was made about text and data mining exemptions in other countries, but I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe. He has a distinguished record in these affairs as a former Chair of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee, and through his career. The regulations must be proportionate and reflect the economy that we are regulating. We have an incredibly strong digital creative industry and non-digital creative industry, and we must ensure that that is appropriate.

We heard rights holders arguing that no change should be made in the UK, and we also heard not just the big AI and tech firms but researchers in the life sciences and social sciences making the case that many of them were increasingly finding problems, not with negotiating with the obvious rights holders when it was clear who they were, such as universities, but with material available on the internet. They were finding it difficult to find the person to get permission from them, and that was holding back research, especially when working with multiple rights holders. While I am happy to concede that the proposals perhaps were not correctly, fully or properly drafted, there are some issues that are still worth pursuing. The Intellectual Property Office was asking the right questions, but it is more complex than the original proposals suggested. That is why we have committed to continuing that consultation.

Yesterday, I was with the all-party parliamentary group. I have instructed the Intellectual Property Office to share its analysis of the consultation findings, so that we can sit down together and go through what the issues are that we still need to deal with, and can get the balance right. As was said by a number of colleagues from across the House, when I say “get the balance right”, there is clearly a difference between those small and sometimes voiceless creatives—whether analogue or digital, but particularly if they are not in the digital creative economy—because some may want to completely opt out and say, “I just never want to see my image turned into an avatar, ever.” People need the ability to just opt out. People also need the ability to license, to be on the front foot, and to negotiate terms, which happens.

What the Intellectual Property Office picked up on from both sides is that there is a middle ground: there are those without a strong organisational platform through which they can set out the terms on which they are prepared to have their material accessed, and there are digital creators using intermediary AI technologies to create digitally, which is a legitimate activity, and who are struggling to find that interface and make it work. It is in that space that we particularly need to look to get the balance right between our creative, digital and AI sectors. Many in those sectors are small, extraordinarily dynamic and entrepreneurial.

In Coventry, I recently met a fantastic, almost underground coding community of teenagers doing amazing things. We need to be careful to ensure that the creative industry can flourish, and that the rights of the creators, who may or may not want their material to be used, are not trampled over. If they do want their material to be used, that takes us to a second issue: fair remuneration. I have stood here and discussed this with the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) before. There are issues about rights and about remuneration. How should we ensure that small creators are properly remunerated? There are issues that we need to deal with. As a number of colleagues have said, this is about the balance between rights, responsibilities and remuneration in the world of digitalisation of content and creativity.

There are two big lessons from last summer. One is that data is important. I have started a conversation with the Intellectual Property Office to ask if we could not do more to ensure that we have better datasets on exactly what the situation is with new, emerging revenue streams, new providers and new creators. The industry is moving very fast, and when it comes to which bits of the market are working well and which are not, there is a slight lack of data on which to base policy. Creating market conditions in which everyone can have confidence is the real challenge for the Government and for me as Minister.

I tentatively suggest that there may be another lesson, which is that we should harness the power of digital technologies and digitalisation when doing consultations. I am not quite suggesting that we should have run the AI-ometer over the consultation responses, but given the number of analogue Government processes, harnessing smart intelligence systems may provide us with a good way of identifying better clusters of feedback in consultations, and help to democratise the process of consultation. It is a slightly left-field point, but I am trying to signal that as we think about these industries, we have to ensure that we are not just talking to the same people, but driving new methods of consultation to keep up with the pace of the industry.

I have probably detained you, Mr Robertson, and other Members long enough. I hope it is clear that we have listened and heard, and we are absolutely committed to making sure that we get this right. Although the Government need to be on the front foot in anticipating the regulatory framework and getting it right, the proposals have clearly elicited a response that we did not hear when they were being drafted. We have taken the responses seriously. The Minister responsible for this area—my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch and Upminster —and I have made it clear that we do not want to proceed with the original proposals. We will engage seriously, cross-party and with the industry, through the IPO, to ensure that we can, when needed, frame proposals that will command the support required.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Debate between George Freeman and Damian Collins

Wednesday 19th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

Mr Speaker,

“By making a better business environment his top priority, the Chancellor has recognised that successful and confident companies are the key to transforming Britain’s growing economic recovery into one that is felt in homes and on high streets.”

That was the response this afternoon of the director general of the British Chambers of Commerce. It reflects the fact that the Budget takes place in an economy where growth is established—it is set to grow faster than any other developed economy in the world—and where unemployment has been falling consistently and steadily. More than 1 million jobs have been created in the private sector across the country. Today’s unemployment figures provided further good news. In my constituency, unemployment fell again. Unemployment is 20% lower than it was at the time of the last general election and I hope that it will continue to fall. That is making a difference to people’s lives and circumstances.

I am sometimes dismayed to hear Opposition Members decrying the number of jobs that have been created and pretending that they are not worth anything. The best thing that we can do in the economy is get people back into work, and there are a variety of jobs that people want to do. In an intervention earlier, the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) seemed to dismiss a job for a young person as an apprentice in the retail sector as one that was not worth having, particularly in the fashion and textile industry. I find that absolutely staggering, because it is an important industry that people want to go into.

I welcome the extra investment in the apprenticeship programme announced today. The programme has helped a lot of young people get into work, and I have seen it work to great effect in my constituency. At an event that I attended with the Federation of Small Businesses last week, I was pleased when it said that because of growth and falling unemployment, one of the big demands from employers is to have more skilled people to recruit from. Investing money in apprenticeships, further education and skills training is important in meeting that demand.

The Chancellor reminded us today of the cuts in business taxes that the Government have put in place, particularly the headline cut in corporation tax from 28p to 20p in the pound next year, which will make a big difference, including to smaller businesses on the high street. One of the great tests that I apply in Folkestone and Hythe to see how well the local economy is doing is what the high street looks like. Is it busy? Are people out shopping? Are businesses trading? I am pleased to see more new independent businesses opening and taking shape, and more entrepreneurs setting up their businesses in incubator spaces such as the Workshop in Tontine street in Folkestone. Town centre businesses will benefit from the £1,000 cut in business rates that the Chancellor announced in the autumn statement and the £2,000 employment allowance, which will go to smaller businesses.

The cuts in income tax will benefit a huge number of people across the country. More than 3 million people will benefit from the lifting of the personal allowance to £10,500, and 45,000 people in my constituency will be better off as a result of the changes in income tax that the Chancellor has announced.

I also particularly welcome the Chancellor’s focus on what he called “the makers”, who are an important part of our economy. The right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) said that we should do more to support and stimulate the creative economy, but we have done a huge amount. The Chancellor confirmed today that the European Commission has approved the production tax credits that were announced in the previous Budget for the video games industry, high-end TV production and drama and the animation sector. Those policies are now bringing investment into this country and into a rapidly growing industry. The film and television sector in this country is booming and sustains a large number of jobs across the creative sector, not just those employed in it directly. The Chancellor was absolutely right to say that he wanted to extend those production tax credits to theatre, including regional and touring theatre.

I know that many people in the drinks industry, as well as drinkers, will welcome the cut in beer duty and the freeze on whisky duty. Last week, I met some winemakers at Chapel Down in Kent, who work in an important and growing area of the UK drinks industry. I am sure that they will welcome the scrapping of the duty escalator, but what was more important to them in today’s Budget were the incentives to invest in the growth and development of their business. They are much more concerned about growing and expanding their market overseas, so they will hugely welcome the increase in export finance from the Government to £3 billion and the £500,000 annual investment allowance for businesses, as they invest in the future success of their business.

I wish briefly to mention savers. Many people in my constituency will have been delighted to hear what the Chancellor said today. For a long time, it has been a bugbear of many people approaching retirement that annuities have been poor value, and they have resented being forced into taking out a poor product that they did not want. They now have more freedom. I know that many older people who rely on savings income have been concerned that they have not been able to get the returns that they would like, because banks’ interest rates have been low and the range of products has been limited. The creation of new bonds that will be available to pensioners, with returns of up to 4%, will lead to a revolution in the savings market in this country, as will the reforms to ISAs. Somebody said earlier that they should now be known as NISAs—new ISAs—which is a nice touch. They will be simpler, and people will be able to save more, which will be—

[George Freeman]

Nicer.

[Damian Collins]

Exactly.

Like other Members, I greatly welcome the removal of VAT on fuel for air ambulances. Kent, Surrey and Sussex Air Ambulance is a fantastic organisation and has been calling for that change, and it and people across Kent will welcome it.