Future of the NHS

Debate between Geoffrey Clifton-Brown and Matt Hancock

Thursday 23rd February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Member for that intervention. I am not surprised that he agrees with what I said about the moral case for a universal healthcare system, nor that he makes the case against any use of profit in the NHS. I was going to come on to exactly that point, because it is bunkum to suggest that the NHS has ever in its history provided services without the use of private companies. That has happened throughout the long and proud history of the NHS, and it is absolutely vital to its functioning—always has been, always will be, under Governments of all stripes. I will come on to explain why.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend is being generous with his time. Is there not a fourth argument for a universal healthcare system, which my right hon. Friend was very keen on when he was Secretary of State: the ability to introduce new technologies, new procedures and new drugs? All of those things are much easier when one has a big bulk of patients to draw data from.

[Matt Hancock]

Two of my arguments for what the NHS needs to do better in the future are responses to precisely the two points that have just been made. I cannot decide which order to go in, but both are absolutely vital. I agree with my hon. Friend, and disagree with the right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn).

Given the pressures on the NHS, in order for it to succeed in the future, all of us who care about the NHS must have a hard-headed view of what needs to happen for it to function long into the future. One of those things, which I think is absolutely central, is the use of technology, so I will come to that point first. Today, the NHS has more clinicians in it than ever before. Contrary to what the hon. Member for Jarrow said, it has a higher budget than ever before. It has more nurses and more doctors than ever before, it is delivering more service than ever before, and it takes up a higher proportion of our national income than ever before. That has all happened under a Conservative Government that believes in the NHS. Those are the facts.

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[Matt Hancock]

I wish that I had been able to drive forward the use of technology even more than I did. I pushed it as hard as I could, but if I could have gone further, I would. It is about not just efficiency for the health service, but a better service for patients and the research agenda. Another advantage of a universal service is that, because almost everybody in the country is within the NHS system, we can do amazing research to find out what treatments work better. If we can get high-quality data into the hands of researchers, they can discover new drugs or new procedures to save lives.

Yesterday, for instance, I signed up and had my bloods taken for Our Future Health, which is a wonderful programme run by Sir John Bell that aims to sign up 5 million people—ill and healthy—to give, with consent, their health data and blood to a large-scale research programme to find out what keeps people healthy. That is for 5 million people, but we can use the NHS effectively —with proper consent and privacy—to save future lives, which is yet another benefit of a universal healthcare system.

My second point—I will make three—on what the NHS needs to do more of in the future is about efficiency. The Prime Minister was right in the summer to float the idea that if someone misses too many appointments without good reason, they should be charged for them. One of the problems for efficiency is that many appointments are missed, which wastes clinicians’ time. It was right to consider that idea, but I would be totally against people having to pay for the first appointment.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way again. I had to have a procedure the other day that I imagine cost the NHS quite a lot of money. When I was talking to the consultant, she told me that some days, she had a 50% no-show rate, which must cost the NHS several thousand pounds.

[Matt Hancock]

I hear such stories all the time. We should separate out free at the point of use from not abusing the service. Of course, people miss appointments for good reasons, but too often they do not have a reason. We should be thoughtful about how we address that.

On the point of the right hon. Member for Islington North about the use of the private sector, the NHS has bought things from the private sector throughout its entire life. Who built those fax machines? It was not the NHS. The NHS buys stuff—everything from basic equipment to external services. GP contracts are not employment contracts but contracts with a private organisation. Most of those private organisations are not for profit; nevertheless, they are private organisations and always have been.

The previous Labour Government expanded the use of the private sector, of course, to deliver a free-at-the-point-of-use service. Patients, in large part, do not care whether they get their service from the local Nuffield or the local NHS—it does not matter. What matters is that they get a high-quality service at the right time and as quickly as possible.

I was delighted that the shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, the hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), recently set out that Labour’s policy would return from what I regard as a totally impossible, mad, hard-left agenda of saying that we should not have the private sector in the NHS—even though it has always been there and always will be—to the position that Labour held when it was last in office and used the private sector for the delivery of services where that was in the best interest of taxpayers’ money and patient outcomes. That has been done over and over again, and that contracting is important.

To be in favour of the NHS being free at the point of use, and to be against NHS privatisation, does not rule out the NHS delivering services as effectively as possible whether through employing people or using contracts. The nature of the delivery is secondary to the importance of it being free for us all to use, for the reasons that I have set out.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Geoffrey Clifton-Brown and Matt Hancock

Monday 14th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Mr Speaker, this is an unexpected surprise, and I am sure it is for the Secretary of State as well. I am sure that he will be interested in my question. Ultimately, these decisions are a matter of judgment. Can he publish that data on the risk to the health service and the risk to individuals of death, as opposed to those on the social harm and the harm to businesses? Can he therefore tell us why this judgment has been made?

[Matt Hancock]

The best thing that I can point my hon. Friend to is the slides that were presented by the chief medical officer today. I will see whether there is anything further that we can publish, but as a general rule, we publish all the data on which these judgments are made. Central to the judgment today is the fact that we are seeing a rise in hospitalisations, especially over the past week, and especially among those who are unvaccinated or have just had a single jab. Those people are not largely those who are unvaccinated out of choice; it is those who are unvaccinated because they have not yet had the opportunity because they are younger.

Until about a week ago, hospitalisations were basically flat. We thought that the link might have been completely broken between cases and hospitalisations or that it might be a lag. Sadly, hospitalisations then started to rise. For deaths, we have not yet seen that rise, which I am very pleased about; hopefully they will never rise, in which case the future will be much easier. It may still be that there is an element of it that is a lag, and we will be looking out for that very carefully over the couple of weeks ahead, but nevertheless our goal is to get those vaccines done in the five weeks between now and 19 July in order to make sure that this country is safe. I will commit to publishing anything further that we can that underpinned the decision, but I can honestly say to my hon. Friend that most of it is already in the public domain.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Geoffrey Clifton-Brown and Matt Hancock

Programme motion
Monday 19th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I am really proud to have been part of the Government who introduced the national living wage to increase the level of support for the lowest paid across the whole United Kingdom. That is one example of the UK Government working to improve the support and pay available for the lowest-paid people in Scotland and across the whole of the rest of the United Kingdom, alongside the unprecedented economic support that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has put in during this crisis.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

I wholly applaud my right hon. Friend’s approach of localised lockdowns, but does he agree that in an area such as Gloucestershire, where, mercifully, the number of cases is still relatively low, the tracking and tracing and advice on self-isolating could be improved by involving both national and local resources?

[Matt Hancock]

Yes.

Covid-19

Debate between Geoffrey Clifton-Brown and Matt Hancock

Monday 16th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes. First, let me pay tribute to the 111 call handlers and the clinicians who have done an amazing job over these past few weeks. I do not know what we would have done without them. Secondly, the three-hour turnaround of the script changes was an unbelievable task for those who implemented it. They did a magnificent job to turn it round so quickly, and I, of course, applaud them for doing so, and would wish them to be able to turn it round even quicker, but they did an amazing job doing it as fast as they did.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

The Secretary of State’s announcement today will mean that large numbers of elderly and vulnerable people will be required to self-isolate. Will the Government therefore co-ordinate all the volunteering organisations because large numbers of people will be required to deliver necessities to those vulnerable groups?

[Matt Hancock]

Just as we have introduced a national effort for ventilators, so we are introducing a national effort for volunteers, and my right hon Friend the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport is leading that drive.

NHS Funding Bill

Debate between Geoffrey Clifton-Brown and Matt Hancock

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 27th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, I am delighted to be able to assure my right hon. Friend that, on both counts, he is absolutely spot-on. This Bill makes it clear that we will be funding the NHS with its long-term plan and making this long-term commitment as a minimum. The election result put paid to the scaremongering put about by Opposition Members in relation to the NHS in trade deals, because the NHS is not on the table. When it comes to Harlow, my right hon. Friend and the people of Harlow well know that I am delivering: we will have a new hospital in Harlow.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

On the same theme as that raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon)—privatising the NHS—will the Secretary of State confirm that the disastrous private finance initiative deals done by the last Labour Government were not only the largest privatisations the NHS has ever seen, but that they cost various NHS trusts billions of pounds? Will we be reversing that, and will the money go into the local NHS trusts?

The National Health Service

Debate between Geoffrey Clifton-Brown and Matt Hancock

Wednesday 23rd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

That is a decision taken by the local NHS. The proposals that we are putting forward in law, for debate under this Queen’s Speech, are to change the regulations. We must absolutely get the best solutions for local patients, and I will address the hon. Lady’s point before taking some more interventions, because I want to refer specifically to the amendment tabled in the name of Opposition Members. Not only is it unnecessary, but it is counterproductive. It would do the opposite of what they say that they intend.

The Government believe—I think this is true across the House—in a publicly funded NHS that is free at the point of use according to need, not ability to pay. The Opposition say that they want a publicly provided NHS. I think what matters is what delivers best for patients, and let us look at this point of—

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way on that point?

[Matt Hancock]

Let me explain my argument and then I will give way. What is not currently publicly provided? What about drugs and pharmaceuticals? Is the hon. Member for Leicester South really saying that only drugs manufactured by the NHS can be used in an NHS hospital? That is what his amendment says. Will he go and tell that to the patients who use Brineura, aspirin or cutting-edge cancer treatments? What about the new breakthrough announced this morning that could delay the onset of Alzheimer’s? My grandmother died with dementia, and his amendment would stop access to new drugs because he is against anything that is not publicly provided. The Government reject that ideology. What about other things that the NHS buys? Will he only buy pencils that are manufactured by the NHS? What about all those blasted fax machines? Is he suggesting that the NHS starts to manufacture its own fax machines? I want to abolish fax machines in the NHS; he wants to nationalise them.

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[Matt Hancock]

Yes, I entirely understand where my right hon. Friend is coming from, and he has been a tireless campaigner on this issue. On this point, I also want to welcome the cross-party approach set out by the hon. Member for Leicester South. This is an important thing to get right. Of course each decision for an individual patient has to be clinically-led; we cannot have MPs calling for specific clinical interventions, and I think my right hon. Friend and everybody else recognises that. But there is a problem in the system here, and I have asked the medical director of the NHS to lead the work to resolve the problem. We are working on it, and I look forward to meeting my right hon. Friend and others with an interest in this soon.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

On behalf of my constituents, may I give a warm welcome to my right hon. Friend’s announcement this afternoon of extra funding to keep the A&E at Cheltenham open? My constituents already have to travel 25 miles to get to Cheltenham, and this announcement will be a huge relief to them.

[Matt Hancock]

I am delighted to have been able to give that assurance and I thank my hon. Friend for the work he has done.

Budget Resolutions

Debate between Geoffrey Clifton-Brown and Matt Hancock

Tuesday 30th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and we can only have a sustainable NHS if the social care system is also properly supported.

The social care Green Paper to be published later this year will set out the options to meet the unprecedented demographic challenge—and what a challenge. Some 70% of people in residential care homes now have dementia. The number of people with dementia is set to rise from 850,000 today to over 1 million in less than a decade. The number of people of working age in need of care is rising and is set to increase by almost half by 2035. Yet, despite these pressures, 83% of adult social care settings are now rated good or outstanding by the Care Quality Commission. That is the highest level since assessments began. As a society, we need to address the pressures on social care so that everyone can live in dignity and we can have a situation that is sustainable for the long term.

The Green Paper will bring forward a range of proposals to reform our social care system. I pay tribute to the excellent cross-party work of the Health and Social Care Committee and the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee, which are helping to build a consensus behind potential solutions. This is exactly the sort of long-term cross-party work that we need to see, when fair-minded people from across the House come together to address the challenges of the future, and I will work with anyone from any party to get this right.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

I listened with care to my right hon. Friend’s very welcome remarks on yesterday’s “Today” programme about having parity of esteem between mental health and physical health, and I welcome the announcement in the Budget of £250,000 for children’s crisis centres. Sadly, people in society now have complex mental health problems at a younger and younger age. In order to make these policies work, will the Secretary of State ensure that there is a sufficient number of well trained staff in the NHS to deal with these mental health problems?

[Matt Hancock]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; he has put his finger on an incredibly important point. As we spend £20 billion extra on the NHS, we are going to ensure that we train up and attract the people who are going to do the caring.

Broadband Universal Service Obligation

Debate between Geoffrey Clifton-Brown and Matt Hancock

Thursday 15th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

That is an important point. The latest take-up figures are about to be published by Ofcom, but the message that needs to go out on take-up is this: in a BDUK area, the more people who take up the connection, the more money goes back into providing more connections for other people. It is incumbent on us as local representatives to get that message out.

We should also get out the message made by my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach) about the Ofcom app, which I have downloaded, so that Ofcom gets the real data from the ground about connectivity in each area. My hon. Friends the Members for Wycombe (Mr Baker) and for Witney (Robert Courts) also made the point that connectivity matters more than technology.

I want to return to the point about farmers made by my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds— he is sitting next to my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman), who also cares a lot about farmers. I loved the phrase used by my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds: it is important that we have both a future-proof and a rural-proof approach. In introducing the USO, we have said that 10 megabits per second is an absolute minimum. The legislation provides for that to be revised up. The Scottish Government have chosen to have a fixed figure; I think it is better to have a figure that can be revised up as technology changes.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

My right hon. Friend is making a fantastic contribution on this USO, but the problem with the 95% target is that in rural areas, it will not be met for many more than 5% of customers.

[Matt Hancock]

Of course. Topography means that it is harder to deliver in rural areas, so we are introducing a universal service obligation to ensure that everyone can get hold of broadband.

Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Geoffrey Clifton-Brown and Matt Hancock

Thursday 3rd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

I am a great fan of transparency and a supporter of transparency across Government. We should consider carefully whether further transparency should be applied to charities, and how that is best delivered. I have no doubt that transparency begins at home for charities, and best practice is for them to be widely transparent about their operations. There is a question about whether we should do more in law, and balanced arguments in both directions. I hope we can consider that during the passage of the Bill.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Do any of the new powers that the Bill gives the Charity Commission deal with charities that depart from their original charitable ambitions and disproportionately become political funding and campaigning organisations?

[Matthew Hancock]

We took action towards the end of the previous Parliament to ensure that the legal framework for charities and other organisations means that they do not cross over into direct partisan political work. A review is under way into how the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Act 2014 has worked. There are questions about whether that needs to go further, but the best place to deal with such issues is in the review and during scrutiny of the Bill. I understand my hon. Friend’s concerns, and it is important that our review fully considers the impact of the 2014 Act.

We regard the Etherington package, including the fundraising preference service and a move to opt-in for further contact, as the minimum necessary to rebuild public trust. We propose that regulation of fundraising happens on a self-regulatory basis, but that self-regulation must implement the review’s recommendations in full. Some people have rightly asked what will happen if self-regulation fails. We want it to work, but we are also clear that practices must change. In Committee, we intend to bring forward amendments that will strengthen the Government’s reserve powers to intervene if the self-regulation recommended by Sir Stuart fails. Predatory fundraising targeted at vulnerable people is wrong. It has shaken public confidence in charities and we are determined to stamp it out.

Alongside tackling those challenges, the Bill aims to open up new opportunities.