Scotland: General Election and Constitutional Future

Gary Sambrook Excerpts

Wednesday 17th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Tommy Sheppard]

I am more than happy for the record of the Scottish Government to be judged by the people on 6 May as well; independence and the referendum is not the only thing we shall be voting on. This SNP Government have been in power for 14 years, and what they do seems to go down rather well with the people of Scotland; I very much look forward to their judgment on that question on 6 May.

[Gary Sambrook (Birmingham, Northfield) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman’s party is seeking a new mandate on 6 May. If it does not get the majority it is seeking, will he therefore rule out the SNP trying again to seek a divisive second referendum?

[Tommy Sheppard]

Everything we do is subject to the will of an endorsement by the people of Scotland; so, obviously, if they do not want to take a particular course of action that we are recommending, that will not happen. If the Conservatives win on 6 May, I accept that there will not be a referendum. I hope they will accept that if we win, there will be, and that it will be legitimate for that to happen.

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[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

I look across at the SNP Benches and see Members who I consider to be friends and who I have worked well with in parliamentary cross-party groups. I am proud that the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) has described me as a grandson of Skye, in memory of my grandfather Alexander Matheson, who was born there over a century ago. Of course, I am English. I am also British, and I am a Cheshire man—a Cestrian. It is possible to identify as all three, which is why I am saddened that the narrow, divisive nationalism of the SNP has been allowed to eat away at people who, in every other sense, should know better. If nationalism is the answer, they are asking the wrong question. It is an ideology based on division, difference and setting one against the other solely on the confected grounds of limited, singular identity.

SNP Members cannot see the irony, as they sit across from the Conservatives, that they are two cheeks of the same backside. The Tories have become the party of petty little Englander nationalism. They claim to be Unionists, when in fact the current Government are the biggest threat to the Union, as we see with the predicted consequences of Brexit for Northern Ireland and the slashing of parliamentary representation in Wales. The SNP revels in this, as though working in a symbiotic relationship with the Tories, perhaps to promote its own narrow agenda and distract from its own terrible failings in government.

[Gary Sambrook]

The hon. Member says the Conservatives are the biggest supporters of separation. May I remind him that the Labour party lost its voters in Scotland because it did not stand up for the Union as strongly as it should have done, which opened the door to the Scottish National party?

[Christian Matheson]

Oh, so it is all our fault. Well, it is the Conservatives’ fault what is happening in Northern Ireland and for driving the Scots away, because the truth is that the SNP is more similar to the Tories than it lets on.

Today, there are two debates led by the SNP, one on constitutional affairs—independence—and one on Brexit. In fact, they are the same debate, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) said, because exactly the same baseless arguments that the Tories made about Brexit, the SNP now makes about Scottish independence. The Tories showed the UK the failings of their own Government and said, “Look, everything will be fine if we are free of the EU.” The SNP is also showing the failings of its own Government and the UK Government and saying, “Look, everything will be fine if we leave the UK.”

In the case of Brexit, every prediction was that we would take a hit to our economy, but that did not matter because we would be free. In the case of Scottish independence, every prediction is that the Scottish economy would take a big hit, but that does not matter, according to the SNP, because it would be free. Both campaigns were and are about narrow nationalism, appealing not to sense, reason or objectivity based on facts, but to emotion stirred by distrust of others. None of the Brexit argument stood up; it was pure ideology. None of the Scottish nationalists’ arguments stands up to scrutiny either; theirs is a pure emotional ideology. I am just waiting for them to roll out “Take back control” as their campaign slogan and the circle will be complete.

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[Gary Sambrook (Birmingham, Northfield) (Con)]

It always really saddens me when time in this place is used by some constantly to go back to their obsession with separation. It is not that I think that Scotland cannot go it alone: I have faith in Scotland and a lot of respect and love for Scotland. It is that I worry about the loss of Scotland’s contribution to our United Kingdom. Strategically, economically and culturally, it is a huge player in the successful global powerhouse of the United Kingdom.

Culturally, people travel from across the world to visit the United Kingdom. They do not necessarily go to London to have a look round, or even to my own home city of Birmingham; they also go to Scotland to the Edinburgh festival and to experience the highlands, which I myself love to visit at least once a year. Economically, Scotland makes a huge contribution to our exports. Whisky, for example, is the single biggest food and drink export from this country. Strategically, too, Scotland is important, especially when it comes to defence. Yesterday, the Prime Minister gave us an update on the integrated review, in which it was said that Russia was our greatest threat. When the RAF intercepted Russian bombers, it left from Scottish air bases. That is a huge contribution that Scotland makes to the defence of this country.

I will also mention family ties. Today, I am wearing the tie of the clan Farquharson. My sister’s fiancé, Andrew, donated this to me so that, at some point, I could make a speech in it. I thought that today would be apt, because it is the family ties that we all share across the United Kingdom that are so very important. I hope that, as Andrew is the father of my little nephew, Freddie, the Union will carry on for many generations so that little Freddie can experience the benefits of our great Union, too.

The hon. Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) made a very good point about devolution. Many people in Birmingham feel that Westminster is a far-away place and that it does not understand many of their problems, so that problem is not necessarily unique to Scotland.

Devolution comes with responsibility. Unfortunately, the Scottish National party constantly use distraction as a technique to take away from its responsibility for some of the abysmal services that it runs in Scotland, including education, local government finance and transport to mention just a few. Responsibility is very important. It is tiresome that SNP Members keep coming to this place and using up valuable time to further their agenda for separation when really what they should be doing is having a debate on how Scotland is run. I very much hope that, on 6 May, people will not give them the mandate for a second referendum that they so wish for.

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[Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)]

Scotland is a great nation with a proud and unique history, and Scottish identity should be valued and cherished. That is why, when the Labour party last came to government, we delivered the devolution settlement and established the Scottish Parliament. But national pride, whether in Scotland or elsewhere, is deeply rooted in national prosperity and security. Economic strength is a foundation stone of national pride and the fact is that this economic strength can be achieved only if the four nations of the UK club together and pool our resources. Together, we are so much more than the sum of our component parts.

[Gary Sambrook]

The Labour First Minister of Scotland has said that the Union is over. Is it not the case that the hon. Member’s party is too willing to jump into bed with separatists and nationalists, which undermines the very foundations of the Union?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Last time I checked, Labour does not have a First Minister in Scotland; I think he must have meant Wales. That is an easy mistake for him to make, I am sure, but I would urge him to be a little more careful next time. The Welsh Government’s position is absolutely clear. We are the party of devolution. We delivered devolution. It is working for the Welsh people, just as it should be working for the Scottish people. We are utterly opposed to independence in Scotland and in Wales.

Britain is still a significant economy and a world power, despite the UK Conservative Government’s botching of the EU trade deal and the weakening of the international relationships that we should be building rather than destroying. The simple truth is that our economic clout and our national security are founded on our unity as a United Kingdom. We are entering an era of great power competition, with threats increasing. The SNP, were it to secure independence, intends to ditch our nuclear defence capability, which would thus undermine the security of the very nation it wishes to lead. Betting the house on rejoining the EU would also be profoundly unwise, given that 60% of Scotland’s export trade is with the rest of the UK, compared with only 19% with the EU.

The reality is that the greatest source of pride and prosperity for the Scottish people will come from rebuilding the economy post coronavirus, delivering jobs, and securing an economy resilient against future shocks.