Banking Competition

Debate between Gareth Thomas and David Gauke

Thursday 12th July 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

It is a very great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies, and to see you, not for the first time, follow in the footsteps of Mr Chope, who chaired the sitting earlier. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom) and thank her for securing this timely debate. Her thoughtful speech set the tone for the good debate that we have had this afternoon. In addition I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier), for Wycombe (Steve Baker), for Macclesfield (David Rutley), for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman) and for Wells (Tessa Munt) and the hon. Members for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce), for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) and for Islwyn (Chris Evans). Hon. Members have brought considerable personal experience to the debate, which has assisted the quality of our debate.

Let me begin by stating clearly that the Government are committed to fostering a strong, competitive banking sector for the benefit of consumers and the UK economy. That is why we asked Sir John Vickers, along with other members of the Independent Banking Commission, to examine the issues as part of his review of the banking sector, and are implementing his recommendations and, in some cases, going further. It is essential that consumers are able to apply competitive pressure and hold their bank to account as to the services it offers. In a competitive market, customers should be able to vote with their feet and switch their custom to banks that provide the best products and services to meet their needs. There should also be a diversity of institutions in the market, capable of meeting the varying needs of consumers. The Government’s strategy for competition encompasses many things, which I will mention in turn.

Creating the right environment for competition to flourish is essential to ensure that consumers benefit in the long term. The Government’s major financial stability reforms will help to enhance competition in financial services. Those reforms implement the recommendations of the IBC, which reported last year. Banks will no longer receive a competitive advantage by being perceived to be too big to fail—a point that my hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire made. The Government’s plans to ring-fence banking services and increase banks’ capacity to absorb losses are also a vital step in creating the right environment for competition in banking to flourish.

By improving the authorities’ ability to deal with the failure of financial institutions in an orderly manner, the Government are substantially reducing the perceived implicit guarantee that benefits the large incumbents. That is part of a broad programme of financial sector reform to solve what my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has called the “British dilemma”—how to host a world-class financial services sector without putting UK taxpayers at risk.

We have seen a number of new entrants into the current account market in recent years, including Metro Bank. It is however essential that prospective new banks can enter the market to compete and that the requirements are not overly onerous or disproportionate. To ensure that that is the case, in the banking reform White Paper the Government announced that the FSA and the Bank of England are conducting reviews of the prudential and conduct requirements for new entrants to the banking sector.

The reviews will reassess the prudential requirements of the new Prudential Regulations Authority and the conduct requirements of the new Financial Conduct Authority, to ensure that they are proportionate and do not pose excessive barriers to entry or to expansion for new entrants. The conclusions of those reviews will be published in the autumn, and the FSA and the Bank of England have committed to introduce, where possible, any changes in advance of the new regulatory structure. That point was raised by a number of hon. Members; in particular, my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest set out his concerns about the difficulties for new banks entering the market and how difficult it can be to obtain authorisation. He raises a fair concern, but of course the right balance, which we have to strike, would ensure that those receiving a banking licence were able to perform the activities that they needed to perform in a secure way. It is right that standards are robust.

That said, the FSA should administer a process that is as smooth as possible. It has already improved the bank authorisation process to make it easier for prospective new banks, and is encouraging potential applicants to attend pre-application meetings, for example. Those meetings allow the FSA to understand better the applicant’s business model and offer tailored guidance. It has also introduced a milestone document on a modular approach to assessing deposit-taking applications. Where appropriate, it will provide a letter stating that it is minded to approve applications subject to specific final conditions for the applicant to satisfy.

The changes significantly improve the process for becoming a new bank and many prospective new entrants will benefit from them in future. The changes also make the process of completing an application easier, while keeping standards high. Combined with the reviews I mentioned on the prudential and conduct requirements, which are under way, the changes help to ensure that the bank authorisation process is not a barrier to entry for prospective new banks.

I note the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest on publishing a checklist of the criteria that prospective new banks need to fulfil. I had a little experience of that in my previous career. Becoming a new bank is complex and it is right that the system is robust, but I am grateful for the constructive comments made.

I am also grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe for highlighting this evening’s “Bank of Dave” programme and for his suggestion about my television viewing. I happened to be driving in my constituency yesterday, when I heard an interesting interview with Mr Fishwick. I look forward to the programme this evening. In reference to that particular example, the requirements are robust, as is generally the case. I do not want to be drawn into a specific case and I cannot comment on the precise activities that that business undertakes, but it is right that we ensure that the system has no undue barriers to entry. The regulation regime could potentially be such a barrier, and we must be vigilant on that point.

Let me turn to the creation of new challenger banks. For competition to drive better consumer outcomes, new providers must be willing to enter the market to compete with the big banks. Two new challenger banks are being created and will be on the high street in the next 18 months. We have heard a little about the sale by the Government of Northern Rock plc to Virgin Money, which creates a new and innovative challenger to the established big five. The sale was completed on 1 January 2012 and the organisation is a useful addition to the high street. I am sorry that the Opposition party remains opposed to that move, because it has increased competition. The National Audit Office said that the process run by United Kingdom Financial Investments Ltd was fair and transparent and that an early sale was the best step the Government could take to secure taxpayers’ interests. As I have said, the sale has introduced, at an early stage, more competition.

In addition, Lloyds is in the process of selling off more than 600 of its branches—the Verde divestment—and the Government are committed to ensuring that the divestment creates another strong challenger. The Government welcome the news that the Co-op and Lloyds have agreed an understanding on the commercial terms for Verde. If the deal with the Co-op goes ahead, the combined entity will already have more than the 6% of the personal current account market that was recommended by the Independent Commission on Banking and by my hon. Friend the Member for Wells.

Along with the Government’s sale of Northern Rock to Virgin Money, the sale by Lloyds will deliver a much bigger challenger bank to the retail banking market. The potential purchase of those branches by the Co-op is a significant boost to the mutuals, which the Government are committed to promote. Once the deal is completed, Co-operative bank will be a realistic, mutually owned challenger to the big five banks.

The Government are determined to ensure that the Lloyds divestment results in a strong challenger, regardless of the final commercial arrangements that Lloyds arrives at. They have actively engaged with the European Commission and Lloyds to ensure that that is the case.

The Government are also committed to promoting the mutuals sector as an alternative to banks. They are looking to ensure that there is a level playing field for building societies, and that growth of the sector is not hindered. Last Thursday, the Government set out their vision for the building societies sector in their discussion document, “The Future of Building Societies”. The document, which has been warmly welcomed by the sector, confirms the Government’s support for the distinctive alternative offered by building societies. It sets out proposals including aligning building societies legislation with the ring-fencing requirements for banks, and applying loss-absorbency proposals to building societies in the same way as to banks. Those proposals have received warm support from the industry, including from the Building Societies Association and the Nationwide.

[Mr Thomas]

What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that the staff who work in the new regulators have at least some genuine understanding of the mutual sector, be it credit unions, building societies or friendly societies? How many staff who have actually worked in that part of the sector are now part of the regulatory environment?

[Mr Gauke]

The hon. Gentleman would not expect me to be able to give him a precise answer as to how many staff within the new regulatory bodies have got specific experience of mutuals and some of the bodies that are under discussion today. Of course it is important for a regulatory authority to have sufficient depth and breadth of knowledge of the institutions that it regulates, and the Government are keen to ensure that that is the case.

Let me say a little about credit unions. The Government have removed unnecessary burdens on credit unions through the legislative reform order. One important aspect of that was to allow credit unions to admit as members corporate bodies such as local charities and firms, and relax restrictions on membership. Those new members can both deposit in and borrow from their local credit unions, thus providing further opportunities for investment and growth in communities.

Credit unions can act as an alternative to banks and building societies in providing affordable financial services to people who may otherwise not be able to access them. The Government have also announced that they will bring forward a co-operative consolidation Bill. Last month, the Department for Work and Pensions announced its credit union expansion project, which will invest £38 million to help credit unions modernise and grow to offer a real alternative to high-cost credit providers. Through all such actions, the Government are creating an environment in which mutually owned institutions can offer a real alternative for consumers, and compete with the banks to serve families and businesses that need to save and borrow for their future. However, I may have to disappoint the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead. I am not sure that we are persuaded by the case that every public sector worker has to be paid through a credit union. Were we to do that, there would be certain issues with regard to competition. None the less, I note her comments.

Let me turn to the issue of switching and portability, which a number of hon. Members raised, not least my hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire. It is essential that consumers are able to apply competitive pressure and to hold their bank to account for the services that it offers. In a competitive market, customers should be able to vote with their feet and switch their custom to banks that provide the best products and services to meet their needs. To that end, the banking industry has committed to introduce, by September 2013, a free, safe and hassle-free switching service to ensure that customers can switch accounts within seven days. To date, banks representing more than 97% of the current account market have committed to being ready to launch the new seven-day switching service by the September 2013 deadline and the Government continue to hold the industry to account to that timetable.

The new switching service will ensure that consumers’ accounts will be switched within seven days, and that all direct debits and standing orders from their old account will be redirected to their new one. The redirection service will last for 13 months. The new service, including a guarantee that the process will be smooth and that consumers will suffer no financial loss, will help to tackle the perception held by many consumers that switching is difficult, costly or risky.

A number of hon. Members have said that we should adopt full account number portability. There are a number of ways in which such an approach could work. In essence, a customers’ account number and sort code, which links the account to a branch, would not change when the customer switched banks, thereby avoiding the need for the customer to change any payment or credit instructions, which would reduce the risk of payments being sent to the wrong account.

The Independent Commission on Banking considered full account number portability carefully and decided not to recommend it in its report of 12 September 2011. As we all know, the ICB recommended that a current account redirection service should be established to smooth the process of switching current accounts for individuals and small businesses. It concluded that the costs and incremental benefits of full account number portability were “uncertain relative to redirection” and that

“it appears that redirection may deliver many of the benefits of account number portability at lower cost.”

As I have mentioned, the Government strongly support the ICB recommendation on switching and are holding the industry to account to deliver by the September 2013 deadline. Once the new switching service is operational, the Government will assess whether the service has delivered the expected consumer benefits. If not, further measures, including full account portability, will be considered. Given where we are and the recommendations of the ICB, we believe that it is right to proceed with the plans currently in place.

A number of hon. Members raised the issue of transparency. They want to ensure that customers can see exactly what services are provided and the costs that apply. The Government are clear that banking needs to become more transparent, and that is a perfectly fair point. A number of transparency measures are already being implemented in retail banking, including making charges clearer on customers’ monthly statements and providing an annual statement of charges for each customer. The annual statement will allow customers to see how much their account has cost them and it will provide an opportunity for them to consider whether they are getting good value.

That is a welcome start, but more must be done. As set out in the recent White Paper on banking reform, the Government see increased transparency and financial capability as an integral part of a competitive banking sector. The Office of Fair Trading has announced that it will conduct a review of the personal current account market in 2012, assessing levels of transparency in the market and the impact of the measures that have already been taken to improve transparency, as well as taking forward the recommendations of the Independent Commission on Banking on including interest forgone on bank statements and annual summaries.

[Mr Thomas]

I thank the Minister for giving way again on the issue of transparency. Why have the Government not included in their proposals for banking reform the idea that there should be a requirement on banks to disclose what they lend and where they lend on a postcode basis, to help us understand where the Thamesmeads, the north Harrows and the other unbanked areas in the UK are, so that we can better direct resources and new challenger banks to those areas?

[Mr Gauke]

Indeed, that issue was raised by the hon. Members for Islwyn and for Erith and Thamesmead during the debate. I say to the hon. Gentleman that data releases by postcode by each bank for all customers would be a very considerable undertaking for banks. It would also create a significant regulatory burden, and let us not forget that considerable regulatory burdens can prove to be a barrier to entry. At a time when we want to ensure that there is more competition, we must bear that in mind. It is also worth pointing out that there are legitimate differences between different areas for lending figures, including differences in credit risk. One would not expect there to be similar lending figures across the country. I caution against a reaction that would mean the imposition of a further regulatory burden.

Let me return to the issue of transparency. The Financial Conduct Authority will take a proactive approach to consumer protection. It will focus on the transparency of information that is available to consumers of financial services. The FCA will carry out a fundamental review of how transparency will be embedded in the new regime, both by the regulator and by firms, and it will publish a discussion paper in the first quarter of 2013. The review will consider what further measures could be introduced to improve the quantity and quality of the information that customers receive, enabling them to make informed choices and exert competitive pressure on firms.

Let me pick up on some other points that were made during the debate. The hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead made a point about the payments clearing system; she was concerned that the big banks controlled that system. My response is that the Bank of England already has a large role in the UK payments system, given that the stability of that system is of paramount importance, and shortly the Government will issue a consultation on the future strategy-setting of the payments industry to ensure that consumers and smaller banks have a louder voice. I hope that all Members support that process.

The issue of access to banking services was raised in the debate, including by the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) in his recent intervention. The Government are committed to improving access to financial services and in particular to bank accounts, which was another point made earlier in the debate. It has been amply demonstrated that having a bank account is an essential aspect of modern life for any individual. Being able to access counter services at a branch and interact face to face with staff is very much valued by many individuals and businesses. However, the issue of where particular branches are located and maintained is fundamentally a commercial decision and one for the financial institution in question, rather than the Government, to make. Therefore, the Government do not intervene in such decisions. All banking service providers will need to balance customer interests, market competition and other commercial factors when they consider their strategy. Nevertheless, banks must treat their customers fairly.

I will say a word or two about the FCA. To ensure that consumers are adequately protected in accessing financial services, the Government are reforming the regulation of financial services. Part of that process includes creating a new dedicated conduct of business regulator—the FCA. Securing effective competition in the market for financial services is a key mechanism for securing better outcomes for consumers, and the FCA’s new competition mandate will be central to achieving that. The FCA will have an operational objective to promote effective competition in the interests of consumers, and it will also be under a competition duty, driving it to look for competition-led solutions to conduct issues more generally and in pursuit of its “consumer protection” and “integrity” operational objectives.

The FCA will have the mandate to use its powers to tackle competition problems more swiftly and effectively than the Financial Services Authority did previously, for example by promoting switching, removing barriers to entry or addressing asymmetries of information. A more proactive approach will lead to better consumer outcomes as problems will be tackled sooner, before they give rise to significant detriment. For instance, the FCA will take a keener interest in how products are designed and distributed in the first place, and it will have a new power to ban or impose restrictions on products that it considers could cause significant detriment.

Greater transparency and disclosure will also be at the heart of the FCA’s new approach. For example, it will have new powers to disclose the fact that a warning notice in respect of disciplinary action has been issued, and to publicise details of actions taken against misleading financial promotions.

In conclusion, banking competition is essential for consumers, businesses and the economy to prosper. The Government are undertaking a number of significant reforms to enhance competition and we continue to work hard to consider how best to improve competition in banking while maintaining the UK’s position as a global financial centre. In that context, I thank hon. Members for their well-considered comments and suggestions today. A number of excellent points have been made today by hon. Members and they all contribute to the valuable debate about banking competition.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Debate between Gareth Thomas and David Gauke

Wednesday 4th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for acknowledging that it is a significant gap. It is a considerable tax cut for businesses in order to get them to grow. Reducing corporation tax will reduce the revenue we take from an inefficient tax, thereby increasing the rate of return on investment and resulting in greater business investment, greater productivity, higher wages and salaries and more jobs. It is important that we have a dynamic private sector, and that is exactly what we are about.

We have to be internationally competitive. Our tax system is not as competitive as it once was. Over the past decade, our competitors have seized the opportunity to cut their corporation tax rates faster than we have. In 1997, the UK had the 10th-lowest main rate of corporation tax among the 27 EU countries, but by 2010 we were 20th. As a result of the reforms announced in the Budget by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, the UK will have the fifth-lowest corporation tax rate in the G20, and by the end of this Parliament, it will be the lowest of any major western economy and the lowest rate this country has ever known. By taking our corporate tax rate right down to 23%, we are going further in restoring Britain’s international competitiveness with a corporation tax rate 16 percentage points lower than America’s, 11 percentage points lower than France’s and seven percentage points lower than Germany’s. It will be the lowest corporation tax rate in the G7. We are pleased that we have been able to make progress in this area.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am sorry to have missed the many speeches yesterday by the Exchequer Secretary and in particular my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson). I missed them because I was campaigning in west Worcestershire with 50 young people protesting against the decision of Worcestershire country council to withdraw funding from Rubery youth centre, which has played a key role in lowering antisocial behaviour in the area. Have the Exchequer Secretary or his Treasury colleagues considered the impact of the corporation tax cut on the funding of crucial public services, such as youth services?

[Mr Gauke]

I am a little disappointed that an Opposition Front Bencher should be so negative about the reduction in corporation tax, given that his colleagues seem to be more enthusiastic.

[Mr Thomas]

That is not answering the question.

[Mr Gauke]

Let me make this point. The hon. Gentleman talked about being in west Worcestershire. I was there two weeks ago for a meeting with local businesses. I met manufacturers who had full order books and were expanding, investing, welcoming the opportunity to expand their businesses and recognising that the Government were putting in place the conditions for strong private sector growth. It is through such growth that we can have sustainable public finances and we can afford to have the public services that we would all like. However, it is no good spending money that we do not have. The move towards a lower rate of corporation tax will enable us to have stronger, sustainable public finances and a dynamic private sector. It supports the Government’s ambition to achieve the most competitive tax system in the G20, and I therefore commend clause 4 to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 4 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 10

Plant and machinery writing-down allowances

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Gareth Thomas and David Gauke

Tuesday 8th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

Obviously, this Government will want to encourage hard work and enterprise, just as the Government in which my hon. Friend served with much distinction in the 1980s did. As for specific tax measures, I am sure that my hon. Friend will understand that with only a fortnight until the Budget, I do not intend to make any specific comments. None the less, I am grateful for his remarks.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his elevation to his post. I also take the opportunity to thank the Chancellor of the Exchequer for taking time out during the general election to come and support my re-election in Harrow West. The Opposition recognise that the new politics is not designed to help Labour Members, but I am grateful for the little bit of Tory love that came my way.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell the House who in the Government will have the final say on whether and which regional development agencies will survive? Will it be the Business Secretary—once a supporter of RDAs—or will it be the Chancellor? No one expects it to be the Chief Secretary. Is not the real truth that RDAs such as One NorthEast are playing, and could continue to play, a key role in helping to deliver new jobs in new industries crucial to Britain’s economic future, such as renewable energy and advanced engineering?