Elections Bill (First sitting)

Fleur Anderson Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 15th September 2021 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

I am sorry; I have to come in there. We have one minute left, so we can have a very short question and answer.

[Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab)]

Q I have a very short question. To clarify for the record, what was the proportion of postal vote fraud, as opposed to in-person, polling station fraud, in Tower Hamlets and Birmingham? I think you have said that all the fraud in Birmingham was postal votes, for example. Is that correct? What was the proportion in Tower Hamlets?

Richard Mawrey: The proportion proved in Tower Hamlets was very small—really only a handful of votes were proved to be fraudulent. It was enough, because they had been orchestrated by the candidate himself.

[Fleur Anderson]

Q Do you have the number of postal votes?

Lord Pickles: To get a prosecution, you do not need to prove everything; you just need to prove some. I agree entirely with the point about electoral petitions. I would like to put that on the record.

[Fleur Anderson]

Have the elections in Birmingham and Tower Hamlets—

[The Chair]

Order. I am afraid that brings us to the end of the time allotted for this panel. On behalf of the Committee, I thank our witnesses for their evidence.

Examination of Witnesses

Councillor Peter Golds, Gillian Beasley and Assistant Chief Constable Gareth Cann QPM gave evidence.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

Gareth Cann, do you have anything to add?

Assistant Chief Constable Cann: No, nothing on that one.

[Fleur Anderson]

Q My question is also for you, Gillian, on the nitty-gritty of the increased resources that you said will be needed. I know that my children will certainly want the free ID card to be able to go into pubs and nightclubs, so there will be more demand for them all year round. As you said, there will be a peak about two weeks before the election, when people realise that they need it. How many staff do you think you will need all year round to provide those ID cards? How many additional staff will you need in that peak before elections, and how much will the additional training cost? Have you been able to provide the estimate of all the costs of what the Government have asked for?

Gillian Beasley: We have not done that yet, but we have started to think about working out how many people we think would apply and how many people would have the ID so they would not have to apply. At the moment, we think we probably need one more administrator just to make sure we have enough before the election. Running up to the election, speaking to my electoral administrators this week, we will probably mobilise a small team of two or three people. The reason for that is because we know that people will come in that surge—people will feel anxious because they will be worried that they will lose their votes, so we need to be responsive and be confident that we can help them. Inevitably, they will not in the first case bring the right documentation—that is our experience—so they will need to go back.

With the surge and the late registration, I think probably one additional person in the team and probably a really good team of about two to three people around the surge period, to deal with the throughput and to make sure that we do not disenfranchise people, which is the worst thing we could do. That is the first thinking that we have, but experience will tell us. We will probably overstate the resource in the first instance so we do not fall foul of it, because we want to make sure that a new provision is properly implemented in our area and gives confidence rather than lack of confidence to the electorate.

[Fleur Anderson]

Q How much did the CCTV—really innovative work—cost to put in?

Gillian Beasley: We have worked with the police on that, and they have employed some of their CCTV. We were able to use our own CCTV as some of that is in the right place. The cost of the CCTV was not huge. The biggest cost is when we have to act. The police resource in Peterborough is quite considerable on the day. We have police in a van to help us manage what is happening inside and outside the polling stations. We get a good sign up by the police to give us that resource on the day. We do cost that out at the end of every election and we have our policing plan in mind for the next election.

[Fleur Anderson]

Q I have a quick question for Councillor Golds. Are you now confident that Tower Hamlets elections are done with integrity? Can the people of Tower Hamlets trust the results of elections now?

Councillor Golds: In all honesty, no, because we had the by-election in Weavers ward on 12 August. There were two incidents of mobbing in one polling station. I was interested that Gillian Beasley mentioned the steps they take in Peterborough to deal with mobbing. In Tower Hamlets it can reach dozens, sometimes hundreds, of people. I refer you all to a report by an organisation called Democracy Volunteers, which talks about the mobbing of polling stations and about family voting inside polling stations.

The issue of people being unable to reach a polling station is difficult. I was walking down Shipton Street at dusk on 12 August, which I calculate must have been just after 9 o’clock. There was a woman inside; the presiding officer had called the police, and seven police officers appeared, because she could not get to the polling station without being surrounded by men who were canvassing or harassing her. A woman walking down the street at 9 o’clock at night to go to vote does not need 10 men to surround her to instruct her how to vote. This has to be dealt with.

[The Chair]

Order. Chris Clarkson.