Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 Section 4

Debate between Emma Little Pengelly and Fiona Bruce

Monday 30th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I would be delighted to welcome that intervention at some point in my speech. should the hon. Member for Belfast South (Emma Little Pengelly) wish to make it.

[Emma Little Pengelly]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way, and I apologise to the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris). I thought she had given way, but it was clear from her demeanour that she had not.

I want to raise the particular problem in Northern Ireland, which is that online gambling and gambling appears to operate under the regulation of the Gambling Commission but if something goes wrong with that, there is no body to complain to. I am dealing with a case where there is an issue with online gambling. I have tried to make a complaint, but I have been told by the Department for Communities and by the Gambling Commission that they have no remit over it. I have been told that they make the regulations under which these sites operate, but if there is a breach of those regulations there is nobody to complain to and nobody to investigate that breach. Does the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) agree that that needs to be urgently addressed, given the scale of the issues in Northern Ireland?

[Fiona Bruce]

I do; in fact, as I understand it the oversight in respect of gambling responsibilities in Northern Ireland is completely unco-ordinated. The report admits that licensing responsibilities currently rest with a mixture of

“the courts, district councils and the Department for Communities.”

That is unacceptable.

This brief report on gambling law and policy in Northern Ireland was a demoralising read. That is no reflection on the good and caring Minister who presented it, but early in his speech he recognised the fact that in Northern Ireland this policy area has been left behind compared with elsewhere. That leaves me with great sadness. The report was meant to outline progress on six specific, enumerated areas. For years, little progress, if any, has been made on this hugely important matter that so devastatingly affects people’s lives. I am always a little thoughtful—I will not use the word “suspicious”—when a response to questions that are enumerated fails to repeat the enumeration, as in this case. It is sad, because we know from what the Assembly has done on human trafficking, which we have just heard about, that innovative policy and legislation in Northern Ireland are possible.

We all know from the many debates and discussions in the Chamber on gambling about the huge damage that gambling addiction can cause. It can destroy individual lives. Children and families suffer. The flaws in gambling law and policy have been debated at length in this place. We have taken positive steps in the form of reducing the stake on fixed-odds betting terminals from £100 to £2, following widespread campaigning. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) for her leadership in much of that campaigning.

We continue to debate and consider this issue. The all-party group for on gambling related harm is currently conducting an extensive inquiry—it has been going for several months—into the harms related to online gambling. We have looked into how we can increase the support provided on the NHS for those suffering from gambling addiction, and we have looked at how to increase the amount of money provided by betting companies to support those suffering from gambling addiction. Of course, we need to go further, and there is no room for complacency, but it is entirely evident from the report that the lack of progress in Northern Ireland must be causing real harm there—and that in a place where I understand gambling may be far worse than it is here.

So, what are some of the problems? As we have heard, the fact that gambling in Northern Ireland is still governed by an order, passed under direct rule, that dates back to 1985 is quite remarkable. That legislation predates the invention of the internet and widespread access to mobile phones, which have revolutionised how individuals gamble in the UK. It is no surprise to discover that the legislation struggles to cope with how the modern gambling industry operates. That is especially evident with regard to FOBTs and online gambling. I, too, have heard that there is no clarity as to whether FOBTs are even legal in Northern Ireland, and the report itself states that

“the legal position of these machines is unclear”.

I, too, have heard that there is a strong argument that they are in fact illegal in Northern Ireland because they do not meet the definition in the 1985 legislation that states how slot machines are supposed to work.

The Northern Ireland Department for Communities estimates that currently around 800 to 900 FOBTs are operating in Northern Ireland, although in January the main trade association, the Northern Ireland Turf Guardians Association, estimated that there were 620. The differential is of major concern. The fact that the Department can only provide an estimate highlights a major issue: an inadequate understanding of the extent of this form of gambling—a form that we have recognised does such damage and that has been referred to more than once as the crack cocaine of gambling. I welcome the fact that some betting shops have voluntarily reduced stakes for FOBTs in Northern Ireland, but the people of Northern Ireland should not have to rely on the good will of operators to determine the way that gambling operates in the Province. The fact is that only the main operators—not all providers—are operating a £2 maximum stake. Consumers are not being given the protection they need.

It is obvious that the law in Northern Ireland is not fit for purpose any more. Indeed, the report says that the order of 1985 has become increasingly outdated, has not kept pace with industry and technological changes and contains no provisions that relate to online gambling. It needs to change as it simply cannot cope with the reality of how individuals gamble today and the operation of the industry. It is not protecting consumers who are vulnerable to gambling addiction. It is in desperate need of reform.

Not only is the law clearly failing, but support for those suffering from gambling addiction is clearly completely inadequate in Northern Ireland. The report makes for especially stark reading in this area. It notes that

“there are no statutory codes of practice in Northern Ireland, nor is there any statutory or voluntary arrangement with the gambling industry requiring any contribution to funding support services for problem gambling.”

This in and of itself is a major concern as it appears that the gambling industry is simply operating on trust in Northern Ireland, unlike in Great Britain. Relying on the gambling industry, as the report says, to implement socially responsible measures is simply unacceptable.

In reading the report, we also discover that

“there are no gambling specific services commissioned by the Northern Ireland Health and Social Care Board”,

as we have heard,

“and therefore the Board does not hold data regarding the number of people who are seeking treatment for problem gambling.”

I am informed that, in fact, only one of the five health and social care trusts operating in Northern Ireland hold data on the number of individuals coming forward suffering from gambling addiction. Is it any wonder that the significance of this issue has not come to light when no data is collected about it centrally?

Before I conclude, may I recognise that it is positive that, as a result of some local authorities calling on betting providers to adopt that £2 stake in their area voluntarily, that is happening? However, as I have said, these arrangements are not backed up by the force of law. People can still walk into some betting shops in Northern Ireland and place a much higher stake than £2. However, I do want to pay tribute to the campaigning charity CARE, which has worked very effectively with local councillors in Northern Ireland to achieve these positive council resolutions.

In England, in a really welcome step forward, the current Government recently announced that the NHS would fund 14 clinics for individuals suffering from gambling addiction, with one focused on children and young people. In Northern Ireland, there is not a single clinic.

We then read in the report that the trade association contributes only £24,000 per year to one addiction service provider—the Dunlewey Centre. I must confess that, when I read that figure of £24,000, I thought that a couple of zeros were surely missing, but apparently not. This is a drop in the ocean in terms of what is necessary in a jurisdiction that, according to statistics that I have been given, has a problem gambling prevalence of 2.3% of all adults in Northern Ireland. That equates to 30,000 to 40,000 adults in Northern Ireland today. The only figure produced in this report of people who have been helped is just 82 users at the Dunlewey Centre. There appears to be less than £1 provided for each person who is experiencing problem gambling.

The situation with gambling in Northern Ireland is nothing less than tragic—I do not think that that is too strong a word to use to describe the current situation. It highlights yet another reason why the Northern Ireland Executive need to return. I believe in devolution. I want Northern Irish politicians, alongside others, to solve this problem. I appreciate the huge difficulties between the parties in Northern Ireland, but what this report highlights once again is how real people are suffering owing to the lack of governance in place.

Northern Ireland, as I have said, has a high rate of gambling prevalence. It is possibly as much as four times higher than in England, but it has virtually non-existent support for individuals suffering from problem gambling and legislation that is not fit for purpose. This has to change—real people and their families, particularly their children, are suffering because of this sorry situation which has been allowed to develop. I sincerely hope that the Northern Ireland parties can get the Executive back, so they can act in this matter as well as in so many others.

Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill

Debate between Emma Little Pengelly and Fiona Bruce

3rd reading: House of Commons & Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Tuesday 9th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Fiona Bruce]

I will come on to that point in considerable detail in my speech, if Members will bear with me.

[Emma Little Pengelly]

I wish to touch on a point that was raised earlier. Does the hon. Lady agree that things are being said about this, particularly in relation to threatened imprisonment, that are not true and causing additional distress? In relation to the recommendations, they are simply recommendations on the way this could be done. It is right and proper that this is scrutinised to see exactly what the detail should be, and it should not be done by way of simple regulation or statutory instrument.

[Fiona Bruce]

I absolutely agree. If Members will permit me, I will go into detail on those concerns.

Last year, this House debated a similar Bill and many similar arguments were aired when we debated the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy), which was passed and became section 4 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Exercise of Functions) Act 2018. That section required the Secretary of State to

“issue guidance to senior officers of all Northern Ireland departments which will specify how to exercise their functions in relation to—

(a) the incompatibility of the human rights of the people of Northern Ireland with the continued enforcement of sections 58 and 59 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861 with the Human Rights Act 1998”

within three months of the Act passing. That guidance was issued by the Secretary of State in December. She clarified that:

“No declaration of incompatibility under section 4 of the Human Rights Act 1998 has been made by the Courts in respect of sections 58 and 59 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861.”

She added that the guidance notes that it does not, and cannot be used to, change the current law on abortion. Section 4 did not require any further reporting on the law or its operation in Northern Ireland. So here we are again with Members seeking to put forward a considerable number of amendments relating to substantial changes to the law on abortion in Northern Ireland, despite this issue being within the devolved competence of the Assembly.