Payment Scheme (Mesothelioma)

Elfyn Llwyd Excerpts

Monday 17th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East (Mr Brown) who made, as usual, a very thought-provoking, good and balanced contribution. I would also like to associate myself sincerely with all the genuine and heartfelt tributes to our late friend and colleague Paul Goggins, who worked tirelessly on this issue—as I know he did on many others, but he was particularly involved with this issue for many years. As the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) said, this is a fitting tribute to him as well.

The scheme we are debating today is of course a step forward for victims of this disease, many of whom will for the first time be given recourse to compensation if the insurers of their former employers cannot be traced. There are, however, problems with this scheme which were highlighted in part from the outset, and indeed from the Second Reading of the Mesothelioma Bill onwards, and some of these problems are still with us. The hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) detailed several of them.

First, the scheme, which was established under the Mesothelioma Act 2014, will apply only to the victims suffering from mesothelioma and will do nothing for those with other asbestos-related conditions, such as asbestosis. That seems fundamentally unfair. I hope that the Government will consider implementing similar schemes for all victims of asbestos-related diseases who are unable to trace the insurers of their former employers.

Secondly, it seems to me to be equally unfair that the victims who are eligible for compensation under this scheme will be able to claim not 100% of the average compensation claim but, rather, 80%. The individuals who will find themselves in a position to make a claim for compensation through this scheme will not only have been exposed to asbestos, but will also have had to go through the rigmarole of attempting to trace the employers’ insurers only to find that it cannot be done, thus they are being penalised for others’ negligence.

I also remind the Government that an individual is not usually alive for very long after being diagnosed with this awful disease. Yet still, dependants will be left with only 80% of the average value of a compensation claim after their loved one has passed away. Of course, until very recently the Government were determined that the victim should be able to gain only 75%. We heard that the Minister recently sent a letter stating that the figure has been raised to 80%, and we are grateful for that. We are grateful that he has moved on the issue, having heard representations, as the right hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East said. I also understand that the letter specifies that applicants can now expect to receive average payments of about £123,000 prior to benefit recovery, as well as £7,000 towards legal fees.

We have heard from several Members this evening about the £7,000 for legal fees and the fact that people presume that lawyers will just take the money and do as little as they can. Speaking as a lawyer—I have been a solicitor and I am a barrister—I remind those who will have to claim that they are entitled to have the lawyer’s bill evaluated independently by a professional body and if it is found to be too much, the lawyer will pay it back. It is a straightforward procedure and will cost the applicant nothing. More often than not, these professional bodies are very strict in not allowing huge, unwarranted fees to go unchallenged.

I would argue that claimants should be entitled to 100% compensation, but it is easy to say that. I know the Government have worked hard and that the dead hand of the Treasury floats above us all, day in, day out, particularly those on the Treasury Bench. However, the Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) Act 1979—which I am proud to say my party, Plaid Cymru, was instrumental in introducing—did introduce 100% compensation. Indeed, Dafydd Wigley, then a Member of Parliament, together with another colleague, drove it through and had an understanding with the Labour Government that it should be introduced. My friend the noble Lord Wigley, as he now is, was instrumental in introducing the legislation before us in the other place, and I am pleased to say that it is coming to fruition. However, at the very least the scheme should follow the model of the Financial Services Compensation Scheme, which pays out 90% of the value of civil compensation claims to individuals exposed to asbestos before employer’s liability insurance was made compulsory in 1972.

Finally, the fact that claimants will be eligible for compensation under this scheme only if they were diagnosed on or before 25 July 2012 is arbitrary and will be desperately unfair on many. However, as was argued in both Houses in debates on the Mesothelioma Bill, it would surely make far more sense to allow all claimants to claim compensation if they were diagnosed during or before February 2010, when an initial draft of this scheme was first proposed, or when the consultation was proposed, as the right hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East said. Just before the 2010 general election, the then Government began a consultation proposing that an employer’s liability insurance bureau should compensate all individuals with industrial diseases who were unable to trace their employer’s insurers. I am pleased that, in any event, that is now coming through. However, individuals diagnosed between these two dates are being left out of the scheme through no fault of their own, but simply because the Government did not perhaps expedite the scheme sufficiently.

I find it difficult to be hyper-critical, because I know that this measure will make a huge difference to many people, and broadly speaking we all appreciate that. However, the insurance industry could surely afford also to compensate those falling between the two dates, not least since the industry’s costs will be lowered, as it will not be entering into negotiations on a case-by-case basis, but awarding average compensation to claimants. I hope we can build on the progress thus far, in order, somehow or other, to compensate these people, who, as I have said, are being dealt with detrimentally for no good reason and through no fault of their own. After that long diatribe, I can say that there is no doubt that this scheme will assist many people, and I am sure we are all very grateful for that.

Pensions and Benefits Uprating

Elfyn Llwyd Excerpts

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Timms]

I can well understand why the hon. Gentleman wants to know the answer to that question. If, as we have heard, he and his party are to be involved in the next Government, it will be in coalition with a party other than the one that they are in coalition with at the moment. I am afraid that he will have to be a little patient to get an answer to his question. None the less, I well understand why he wants to know the answer.

The Chancellor proudly told us in his autumn statement last year that the increase formula for regulated train fares was changing from RPI plus 1% to RPI plus 0%, which means that regulated rail fares would increase by no more than July 2013’s RPI of 3.1% . What is not clear is why the Government apply RPI in that case and CPI in this. The answer, as far as one can make sense of all this, is that the Government use CPI when it is useful to have a small number and RPI when they want a big number. That appears to be the principle that has been adopted. The result is that pensioners will see their state pension increased in line with CPI, but their train fares by RPI.

Part 7 of the order in front of us relates to universal credit. As the House well knows, this is becoming an appalling fiasco. The Secretary of State told us yesterday that he expected 6,000 people to be in receipt of universal credit during the current pathfinder. It was not clear by what date he expected that figure to be achieved. Will the Minister let us know? He will recall that I have been warning since November 2010 that the time scale announced by Ministers for universal credit was unachievable. Unfortunately I have been proved right. Indeed, the position is now a good deal worse than I feared when I wrote to the Secretary of State in November 2010. There is now a real danger that the entire project could collapse.

As I pointed out at the time, the time scale for the IT was always unachievable. That goes back to the July 2010 Green Paper, which included the absurd claim that the IT for universal credit would not amount to a major IT system. Replacing the whole of the benefit information technology can hardly amount to anything other than a major IT system. Ministers have failed to deliver any IT system. It now appears that, while they continue to develop late the IT system they started out with, they are also going to develop a second universal credit IT system, in the hope that they can get it right second time around. Goodness knows how many hundreds of millions of pounds that is going to end up costing. It is clear that the next Government will have a major job on their hands to salvage universal credit after May next year if, as all of us must hope, it can be salvaged.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Is the right hon. Gentleman at all reassured by the Secretary of State’s statement some time ago that universal credit would succeed because he believed that it would?

[Stephen Timms]

The hon. Gentleman correctly quotes the Secretary of State. He told us for a long time that universal credit was on track, then latterly he started to say that it was “essentially on track”. So one can be forgiven for not being entirely reassured.

I wonder whether the Minister can help us on another matter that has just come to light in connection with part 6 of the order on employment and support allowance. A freedom of information request by the advice service Benefits and Work revealed yesterday that the Department for Work and Pensions had issued an internal memo to staff on 20 January advising that, owing to a growing backlog at the assessment company Atos, all current ESA claimants would be left on the benefit without further medical checks until another company could be found to carry out repeat work capability assessments. The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), frankly acknowledged in oral questions yesterday pressures and capacity problems at Atos and indicated that negotiations were taking place to find an alternative provider, but he made no mention of the suspension of repeat assessments in the meantime, which appears to have been introduced. The memo obtained by Benefits and Work suggests that DWP has deliberately chosen not to inform Members of the House or claimants about this change. Why has that been done? Can the Minister provide reassurances to the public about the scale of the difficulties—yet another emerging mess in his Department?

The decision by Ministers to take this action will confirm widespread scepticism about whether the system is fit for purpose. It certainly leaves an operational vacuum, apparently pending the appointment of a new provider. At this stage there is no indication of when such an appointment might be made. In the circumstances, it is surprising that the Minister did not take the opportunity to inform the House of the situation yesterday, when there was an extensive discussion on the matter and a number of questions were asked about the process for replacing Atos and the operation of the work capability assessment in the meantime. It appears that the operation has been significantly scaled back. Given that ESA is part of the order before us, I wonder whether the Minister can take this opportunity to provide us with the explanation that we were not provided with yesterday.

There is growing dismay in the country about the impact of the Government’s changes on growing numbers of people—with an extraordinary 750,000 people forced to go to food banks last year because they were unable to afford enough food for themselves and their families. The Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster expressed it powerfully last week when he said:

“Something is going seriously wrong when, in a country as affluent as ours people are left in that destitute situation and depend solely on the handouts of the charity of food banks”.

He is surely right. Something is going very badly wrong indeed, and it needs to be put right.

The increase of the state pension in line with the triple lock is worth having—I put it no stronger than that—but the Government have chosen to uprate state benefits and pensions permanently in a way that is meaner than the method used before. For that reason, we are unable to support the Government in the Lobby on the orders today.

Housing Benefit (Under-occupancy Penalty)

Elfyn Llwyd Excerpts

Wednesday 27th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Dr Whiteford]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. It is helpful that the Secretary of State is here to hear it. I hope that he will look again at the implications of the policy for Northern Ireland.

Foster carers are also likely to be adversely impacted by the bedroom tax. Foster carers are not routinely included in housing needs assessments, and the allowance that they are paid to cover the costs of meeting a child’s needs does not include a component for housing costs. The Government expect local authorities to support foster carers out of the heavily over-subscribed discretionary housing payments pot. However, as we have already seen, that money will not even cover the most pressing needs of disabled people in specially adapted homes.

Foster carers do an important and difficult job. Children requiring foster care have, almost by definition, been through traumatic experiences and are likely to require more intensive care and attention than other children. For that reason, many fostering services insist that foster carers do not take on other work outside the home. Moreover, more than half of foster carers do not receive a fee for fostering. The Fostering Network is afraid that the bedroom tax will exacerbate existing difficulties in recruiting foster parents. Given the already extreme shortage of foster carers, the Government need to look again at how the system will work in practice.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. On Monday evening, the House debated the Children and Families Bill, which contains some good measures on speeding up and streamlining adoption. One point raised was that unless the fostering section is reconsidered, the whole thing will collapse. Once again we see that this measure has not been properly thought through.

[Dr Whiteford]

My right hon. Friend makes a timely point given the debate that took place in the House earlier in the week.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Whiteford]

I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman.

The bedroom tax is a nasty, vindictive and unnecessary measure. The under-occupancy penalty is manifestly unfair. It puts disabled people on low incomes right at the front of the austerity agenda, and asks people on the lowest incomes to pay the price for the structural problems affecting the supply of affordable housing. However, the bedroom tax is also unworkable: instead of addressing the underlying problems, it undermines the ability of social landlords to invest in the kind of affordable housing that is so badly needed, and it fails to tackle the excessive private sector rents in London and surrounding areas that have fuelled inflation in the housing benefit bill.

The Secretary of State needs to get a grip. The bedroom tax will not save any money, but it will cause chaos for tenants and social landlords alike. It will cause untold distress for those forced to leave their homes and communities, or for those who find themselves grappling with spiralling debt. It is not too late for the Government to think again. I urge Ministers to reconsider: scrap this crazy measure, or at the very least look again at exempting households affected by disability; look again at the budget for discretionary housing payments; offer local authorities support commensurate with the identified needs of disabled people and foster carers; and look again at whether it is reasonable to consider two-bedroom homes as under-occupied at all. I would have more respect for the Government if the Secretary of State postponed this measure and listened.

[Mr Llwyd]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it respectful to this House for the Secretary of State to be playing with his telephone rather than listening, even for a second, to what is being said?

[Mr Speaker]

These are matters of judgment for right hon. and hon. Members. Certainly, discretion in the use of such devices is to be encouraged, but I can say only that I had not noticed the matter. Therefore, so far as I was concerned, there was nothing outré about the behaviour of the Secretary of State. However, I note the point. Probably, the Secretary of State has noted it too, and we will leave it there.

Pension Protection Fund

Elfyn Llwyd Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd November 2011 Westminster Hall

[Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke. I shall begin by drawing attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, although I am not aware that any of the companies to which I am connected have any current business associated with any of the issues that I intend to raise. It is, however, important that I draw the entry to Members’ attention.

I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss important and unresolved issues in relation to the operation of the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme, and their impact on a group of former employees of Allied Steel and Wire, a number of whom are my constituents. I want to begin by acknowledging the relentless work of Mr John Benson of the Pensions Action Group, and by thanking the chief executive officer of Saga, Ros Altmann, who has been a consistent supporter of the former workers, who have been stripped of their pensions through no fault of their own.

I would also like to thank my parliamentary colleagues, my hon. Friends the Members for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Gordon Henderson), who also has an ASW interest, for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns)—John Benson is one of his constituents—and for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), as well as the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) and the hon. Members for Arfon (Hywel Williams) and for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), for attending the debate. We have discussed the issues with all of them over time. I should also like to mention the hon. Member for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott), who is unable to attend the debate because of conflicting public duties, but who has been a consistent supporter of the workers.

Ever since the early part of the 20th century, Parliament has recognised the need to promote proper and adequate pension provision for those in their later years. We have seen the development of the state pension system and its refinement and adjustment in a variety of ways that still continue to this day. Overlaying that, Parliament has rightly encouraged people to make better provision for themselves through occupational or private pension routes. Again, we see that issue at the forefront of parliamentary debate. The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb), has responsibility for the latest Pensions Bill, which is currently in another place, and there has been legislation on pensions in this House on an almost annual basis in recent years.

On the 30th of this month, we anticipate a major public services strike because of Government plans to adjust the future pensions benefits of public sector workers. The merits of those arguments are matters for another debate, but what is undeniable is that the Minister and his colleagues in Government have been at pains to stress that, irrespective of the outcome of the negotiations, the current accrued pensions rights of all public sector workers will be honoured. The then Government made a similar pledge to Northern Rock workers when the bank was taken into public ownership in 2007, and matched that promise in respect of each of the other banks that have found themselves in the public sector.

The reason why such pledges are important is that the success of pension saving depends on the maintenance of trust—trust that, if someone makes regular contributions, they will in due course receive nothing less than the sum that has been promised to them. That trust was significantly shaken 20 years ago by revelations that Robert Maxwell had stolen £460 million from the pensions of Mirror Group Newspapers workers, which led to the establishment of the Occupational Pensions Regulatory Authority in 1995. From that time onwards, workers in company pension schemes had every reason to believe that their pensions would be safe. As Ros Altmann put it in a letter to the Financial Times some years ago:

“Members were told that their accrued pension rights were protected in law and that actuaries would calculate contributions, in line with the minimum funding requirement, to ensure adequate funding to pay the promised pensions.”

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. He is making a powerful case. I support everything that he is doing and agree with all Members present that justice has to be done for this group of pensioners. I would also like to mention that the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) is also present.

[Jonathan Evans]

I apologise for failing to mention the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn). He regularly attends all such debates. I had presumed that he was present for the previous debate on Colombia, without realising that he also wished to contribute to this one. I am happy to put the record straight on that and to give credit to the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd and his colleague, the hon. Member for Arfon, for their support for the ASW workers.