Oral Answers to Questions

Edward Leigh Excerpts

Thursday 5th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

2. What discussions the commission has had on the potential extension of the scope of the National Audit Office’s auditing of the BBC as part of the BBC charter review.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough)]

The commission has had no discussions on the potential extension of the scope of the National Audit Office’s auditing of the BBC as part of the BBC charter review. However, it is aware of the Government’s recent consultation on framing the new BBC charter, particularly the question of whether the NAO should be given statutory access to BBC accounts. The commission notes that the BBC’s own response to the consultation acknowledged the value of the NAO’s value-for-money studies of the BBC. Statutory access would give the NAO the right to audit the BBC’s annual report and accounts, and strengthen its scrutiny of value for money. I understand that the Government are considering the outcome of their consultation.

[Michael Fabricant]

Although I am quite a fan of the BBC—I do not expect any cheers for that—I believe that no organisation should be its own judge and jury. Given my belief that Ofcom should have greater powers over the BBC, similar to those it has over commercial broadcasters, what is my hon. Friend going to do about making sure that the National Audit Office has full powers of investigation into the BBC?

[Sir Edward Leigh]

That is an excellent question. I am proud that when I was Chair of the Public Accounts Committee we forced the BBC to accept, for the first time, that the NAO should do value-for-money accounts. There has been no complaint since then that the PAC has ever involved itself in any editorial decision whatsoever. The fact is that the BBC is a public body. It taxes everybody and has to be held to account. The Comptroller and Auditor General must be given full financial powers to go into the BBC and hold it to account for value for money.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I beg the hon. Gentleman not to get carried away with the vendetta against the BBC that is being carried out by the Murdoch press and members of the Conservative party? The Public Accounts Committee has an honourable heritage of being fair minded, and I hope it will keep to that.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

May I say absolutely clearly that the PAC will not get involved in any “vendetta” against the BBC? This is simply about value-for-money inquiries. For instance, the Comptroller and Auditor General, who certainly is completely outside politics, has expressed in public his concerns about the current arrangements. He does not have a statutory right of access to information. His staff are entirely dependent on what information the BBC chooses to give them in answer to their questions. His reports are badged with the BBC logo and they are always prefaced by a preamble prepared by the BBC Trust. The fact is that the BBC is a public body. It must be like other public bodies and held to account for value for money.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Long ago I used to do auditing of companies, and it seems to me that the BBC would be a prime target for that. Is not my hon. Friend surprised that the BBC has not requested that the National Audit Office gets involved?

[Sir Edward Leigh]

It is not for me to question what goes on inside the mind of the BBC. All I can say is that there is general consensus that we must move forward into the modern age and the BBC must be like all other public bodies, and that this Parliament, through our Public Accounts Committee, must have full financial oversight so that we have a well-run organisation that uses public moneys efficiently.

The right hon. Member for Meriden, representing the Church Commissioners was asked—

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[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

5. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the work undertaken by the National Audit Office on the charity Kids Company.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

The Public Accounts Commission’s role is to assess the overall effectiveness of the NAO, not that of individual reports. I note, however, that the NAO conducted this investigation very rapidly—in about six weeks—to support timely parliamentary scrutiny by the Public Accounts Committee of this important subject earlier this week.

[Mr Hollobone]

What did Ministers do wrong in relation to Kids Company, and how will the lessons learned be applied in future?

[Sir Edward Leigh]

As Chair of the Public Accounts Commission, it is not my job to sit in judgment on Ministers. I would say, however, that the Public Accounts Committee and the NAO have moved very rapidly on this matter. They have had records from Departments going back 15 years, and they are producing a report as quickly as they can. Sadly, Kids Company has gone into receivership, so the NAO has not had access to any of the records held by it.

The right hon. Member for Meriden, representing the Church Commissioners was asked—