Postal Services (Scotland)

Ed Davey Excerpts

Monday 11th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey)]

I thank the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Gregg McClymont) for giving me this opportunity to begin a debate that we will have over the next few weeks and months about Royal Mail and the Post Office. If I am not able to answer all his questions tonight, he will understand why, and I am sure that he knows that all his questions will be answered over the weeks and months to come. I hope that he will like many of the answers that he hears.

Let me start by saying that I am absolutely committed to the universal postal service. As Minister for both postal services and consumer affairs, nobody is more keenly aware than I am of the critical importance of postal services to our communities, small businesses and the country at large. That is why I will introduce a postal services Bill in this Session to ensure that the universal postal service remains one that we can rely on for the future and that will safeguard those two separate but highly valued businesses, Royal Mail and the Post Office.

The hon. Gentleman raised concerns about the post office network in Scotland. The Government fully recognise the important social and economic role played by post offices in communities throughout the UK and particularly in rural and deprived urban areas, whether in Scotland or elsewhere. More than 99% of the population live within 3 miles of a post office and 93% within 1 mile, and it serves 20 million customers per week. It is a fantastic network.

We remain wholly committed to maintaining this nationwide network of post offices. Let me be clear about what that means: we will not repeat the mass closure programmes of the previous Government, which saw around 5,000 post offices close across the UK, including 600 in Scotland and six in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. Labour’s closure programmes tore the heart out of rural communities up and down the UK: I opposed them in opposition and I have no intention of repeating them in government. Instead, we have protected £180 million of Government funding for the Post Office in 2011-12—before the spending review has been announced—to maintain the network at around its current size, with further funding for future years to be finalised within the spending review and announced shortly.

The hon. Gentleman raised a point about the future relationship between Royal Mail and the Post Office. Our starting point must be to recognise that the Post Office and Royal Mail are different businesses facing different challenges. This Government are committed to safeguarding both, but our approach must reflect those differences. It is a commercial reality. I have already made it clear that the Post Office will not be for sale—as the hon. Gentleman recognised—so the two businesses will need to have a different relationship in the future. This should be seen as a real opportunity for the Post Office: separation will give its management greater freedom to focus on growing its revenue and getting the most out of its branch network.

There should be no doubt that Post Office Ltd and Royal Mail will continue to work closely together in the future. Post offices carried out more than 3 billion mail transactions for Royal Mail last year, and the two are closely entwined in the public mind. These companies need each other, and that will continue to be the case after separation.

Our reforms will not end there. We want to see a sustainable network offering a wider range of financial and Government services to boost revenues for local sub-postmasters and the network. We are working intensively across government to examine the scope for the Post Office to act as a “front office” for the Government, where local post offices are the natural place for citizens to access face-to-face Government services, and where the Post Office has an important role in supporting e-government, for example helping people to access online Government services through their local branches.

We are also considering the case for a Post Office bank. We must remember that the Post Office already offers a wide range of financial services and is increasingly taking on many features of a bank, but I want to go further and to see a situation in which 100% of current accounts are accessible at post offices and 100% of people know about that. Of course, those are ultimately commercial decisions for the banks involved. However, as a Government, we have a role to play in encouraging that process and explaining to the banks how important we think it is. Hon. Members can rest assured that we are doing that.

There are interesting opportunities, too, in the growing trend of community groups, charities and local people getting involved in the running of their local post offices. That is what the big society is all about: Government getting out of the way and letting the people who know best have a real say in running their services. We are fully behind this trend and are open to all ideas that can contribute to a vibrant and sustainable post office network on which communities can rely.

The hon. Gentleman also raised concerns about how the universal postal service must not be downgraded as a result of any Government action. Let me start by explaining why the Government are taking action. In 2008, the hon. Gentleman’s own party commissioned Richard Hooper to lead an independent review of the postal services sector, seeking recommendations to sustain the universal postal service, so that many of our small businesses and communities could continue to rely on them. However, those recommendations were never implemented, for reasons that I will not go into because I wish to spare the hon. Gentleman the embarrassment. However, for the past two years Royal Mail has continued to suffer under the perfect storm of a declining market in letters, a volatile and crippling pension deficit, and frankly outdated working practices, which continue to cause problems despite the welcome modernisation agreement.

In June this year, my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary asked Richard Hooper to update his report. His latest diagnosis, published in September, is stark, and I recommend that hon. and right hon. Members read the report. Royal Mail’s financial position is worse now than it was in 2008. The decline in the letters market has been faster and deeper than predicted. In the UK, we now send 13 million fewer items a day than we did just five years ago. The trend is set to continue, with worldwide volumes predicted to fall by 25% to 40% over the next five years alone. They dropped by 7% in the UK last year, and by over 12% in the United States. This is a serious issue that we have to tackle.

Fortunately, it is not all bad news. The online revolution has opened up a series of opportunities—we all know about parcels and packets—but as Richard Hooper has made clear, they do not offset the decline. If we are to seize those opportunities and make the best of them, Royal Mail urgently needs more modernisation and investment, yet modernisation takes capital and commercial disciplines that I am afraid Royal Mail simply does not have at the moment. Let us remember that the taxpayer has made £1.2 billion available to Royal Mail since 2007 to support the current modernisation programme.

Frankly, if we are serious about dealing with the problems, we will have to modernise and invest much more. So where will the money come from? I am afraid that economic times have changed. There is enormous pressure, as every Member must realise, on the public purse. We simply cannot expect taxpayers to continue to provide the ongoing investment that Royal Mail needs when it could be supplied by the private sector, as has been shown with Deutsche Post in Germany, which has seen massive investment since it was first floated in 2001. This is not just a question of cash: Royal Mail needs private sector disciplines and the freedom from Government intervention to innovate and take the right commercial decisions to secure its future.

I say to the hon. Gentleman that we have a choice: to do nothing and allow Royal Mail to slip into a slow decline, requiring ever-increasing handouts from the taxpayer; or to take action, which I will come to.

[Margaret Curran]

The Minister referred to working practices that he believes are causing difficulties. Will he outline what those practices are, and say how the Government intend to change them?

[Mr Davey]

I refer the hon. Lady to the agreement reached by the Communication Workers Union and Royal Mail recently, which looks at significant reforms to working practices. For example, I strongly support the fact that the CWU has agreed to a reduction in the number of sorting offices in order to reduce costs. That kind of change is very welcome.

[Gregg McClymont]

I have been listening intently to what the Minister has said and, as far as I can tell, he is replying to a speech that I did not make. I am asking whether the licence criteria, as currently constituted, protect the 11,500 post offices in the UK and the 1,400 post offices in Scotland. Unless I am mistaken, he has not addressed that point yet, and I hope that he will be able to do so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Davey]

I thought that I had made it clear that, under this Government we will see no major programme of closures as we did under the previous Government. The hon. Gentleman will know the number of post offices that closed in his constituency. There were six, and I can list them. Greenfaulds, Queenzieburn, Banton, Rosebank, Waterside and Kildrum all closed in his constituency under the previous Government, and we will not see such a closure programme again.

[Gregg McClymont]

rose—

[Mr Davey]

Does the hon. Gentleman wish to intervene? I hope that he is going to apologise for those closures.

[Gregg McClymont]

I understand the determination in a political culture to ask people to apologise for things in which they played no role. I do not intend to go down that route. The Minister has given an undertaking to protect the level of Post Office services, but he has not explained how he intends to do it, beyond making some rather vague allusions to the path that the Post Office might go down in the future. I say again that, in my estimation, the licence criteria as currently written can be met only by 7,500 post offices, and I am waiting with great interest to hear something specific about how the 4,000 post offices are to be maintained.

[Mr Davey]

Over the next few weeks and months the hon. Gentleman will hear a huge amount about our proposals to ensure that we can make good on our pledge not to repeat Labour’s mass closure programme. I have already mentioned the extra revenues—whether from Government services or financial services—that will form a critical part of delivering on that. Frankly, it is not through regulation that we will save the post office network; it is by getting business through the network so that sub-postmasters can have a decent income and post offices can be financially viable. That is the way to do it.

[Cathy Jamieson]

Given that the Minister believes that a number of the previous post office closures were wrong, what provision will he make for the communities that wish their post offices to be reopened?

[Mr Davey]

As the hon. Lady will see in the weeks ahead, we want to empower communities and to ensure that the post office network is financially viable for the long term. She will have to wait until she hears this Government’s full policy statement, but I hope that she will support it. We saw 5,000 post offices close across the UK under the previous Government, and we will not see a repeat of that. Those closures left my constituents—and, no doubt, those of the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East—far worse off than they were before.

I should like to continue, as I want to deal with an issue that the hon. Gentleman spent some time on. This Government have made a clear choice. We will take action to safeguard Royal Mail and its universal service—the six-day, one-price-goes-anywhere service that is so essential to consumers, small businesses and rural communities. I recognise the hon. Gentleman’s particular interest in this matter, as that service is highly valued in Scotland, as it is in other extensive rural and remote areas of the UK. He was right to make that point.

Protecting the universal service is our primary objective. That means giving Royal Mail the access to the private sector capital and disciplines that it needs to modernise, innovate and thrive in the modern communications market; it means putting in place a regulatory regime that recognises that post is now competing in a wider communications market; it means giving the regulator an increased focus on safeguarding the universal service, regardless of who owns Royal Mail; and it means making sure that postmen and women have a real stake in the future success of the company. That is why we will be introducing the largest employee share scheme in a privatisation for 25 years—bigger than that of British Gas, BT or British Airways. Indeed, as a percentage of the shares, it will be the largest employee share scheme of any major privatisation. I firmly believe that our proposals for an employee share scheme will help to increase engagement and productivity, and will align the long-term interests of the company with those of its employees.

Let me return to the hon. Gentleman’s specific concern. Some have said that privatisation will lead to a degraded service, but they are wrong. The forthcoming postal services Bill will be all about protecting the universal postal service by establishing new, stronger safeguards and a firmer focus on its continued provision.

I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman is aware that our obligation under EU law is to a lesser service than the one that we currently enjoy in the UK. When it comes to the universal postal service and the minimum service that member states are required to provide, the European postal directive specifies only five days per week, with no obligation to keep the service uniform throughout the UK. I am sure that, as one who comes from Scotland, the hon. Gentleman agrees that a non-uniform service would be unacceptable here in the UK. However, the power to downgrade our service to that level already exists, and could be used by a future Government without a parliamentary vote or any need for consultation. That is completely unacceptable to me.

As I said earlier, I intend to establish new, stronger safeguards for the universal service. The Government have no intention of downgrading the service, and will never allow a situation in which the service required in one area of the country is not the same as that required in another. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will support the safeguards in the Bill when they are debated in the House, because they relate to the very points that he has made so eloquently tonight.

The measures that I have described will ensure that our communities continue to benefit from a vibrant post office network and a reliable universal postal service. Safeguarding the Post Office and the universal postal service is at the very heart of the Government’s policy, and I hope that I have been able to reassure the hon. Gentleman on that point.

Question put and agreed to.