Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (England) Regulations 2015

Earl Cathcart Excerpts

Monday 14th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Best (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my housing and property interests as on the register. Like everyone else, I think this is an excellent measure. We need it, it is a good thing and we need to get on with it as fast as possible. It is an awful shame that the DCLG, the front-line department here, has messed up the public relations around this—something that is well worth while and well worth having—quite badly. I have had the various missives from the British Property Federation, the CLA and others, and people are extremely angry and upset. How you can make people angry and upset about a respectable, sensible thing rather escapes me.

The timing is not as catastrophic as it may appear. I have also heard from the Chief Fire Officers Association, which has been engaged in these things for some time, that it has given out 447,000 free smoke alarms and 53,000 carbon monoxide alarms to private landlords. The association has obviously been busy—each of those is worth about £20, so there have been some goodies out there. But, more importantly, on timing, the association says in its note to me that it knows there is concern about the late introduction of these regulations, which are due to commence on 1 October. But under the process described in the draft statutory instrument, if the enforcing authority, the fire officer, becomes aware that a landlord is in breach of their duties—they will not often become aware very rapidly, I suspect—the first step is to issue a remedial notice and allow 28 days for remedial action. However, in reality, when a tenant raises the issue with a landlord, usually the landlord will do something straightaway. If you can fix the problem for £20, not many landlords will wait around.

But if the landlord has done nothing and the 28-day period has followed the visit from a fire officer, if the fire officer finds the landlord is still in breach of the duty they can take action to ensure the alarms are fitted. Ultimately, they can impose a penalty charge, which is quite a long-winded process, I do not think it will be an emergency situation. I feel we can probably live with that one, even though it has clearly been incredibly badly handled.

I was more impressed by the British Property Federation raising the question of fire alarms in mansion blocks—blocks of flats where the regulations state that the landlord must test the alarm on the first day of a new tenancy. When someone moves in, in theory, the landlord—or more likely the agent—would test whether the alarm was working on that day. These alarms in the mansion blocks are communal alarms that ring throughout the building. If you have a block with tenants turning over quite regularly and the darn thing going off every time there is a new tenancy, bureaucracy is getting a little out of hand. Quite a lot of these alarms also ring at the fire station or the police station or both. This can all be overdone. I would like some reassurance that these regulations will not be imposed willy-nilly, across the piece, in exactly the same way for the lonely one-off house or the mansion block.

I chair the Property Ombudsman, which receives complaints from landlords as well as tenants about agents. I have talked to a couple of agents about their current experiences. Your Lordships may be interested to hear how people who are running these places feel about these matters. The agents I spoke to said that in most cases landlords are already fitting fire alarms, so this is not a big deal. They think that there will be cases where an alarm will have to be fitted on every floor in a three-bedroomed house, which the landlord might not have done. They will do it. They will take the screwdriver and put in the new alarm. An agent explained to me that you want to visit your properties every six months, not every year. Some landlords and agents will go on an annual basis, but every six months is better because batteries are always running out. If a battery starts bleeping because it is getting low, tenants tend to take the battery out because it is so irritating, but that disables the system, which is not clever. The agents I spoke to believe that they can cope. This is a good measure. If only the DCLG had got its act together and put it out in a sensible way, we would all have been very happy tonight.

[Earl Cathcart (Con)]

My Lords, I fully support what these regulations are trying to achieve. These alarms save lives. From my point of view as a landlord, I am confident that I already comply with smoke alarms and carbon monoxide alarms where properties have gas. However, I am less confident with having carbon monoxide alarms in properties in Norfolk which have no gas, although they have open fireplaces and wood burners. I always thought that alarms were not necessary for fireplaces because when a fire is lit the air and smoke are drawn up the chimney and away. Obviously, following these regulations, I will need to fit carbon monoxide alarms there, too.

I am only too well aware of the dangers of carbon monoxide. A good friend of mine is now bringing up his nephews and nieces following the death of their parents because of carbon monoxide poisoning. They had no alarm. Also, last winter I was woken in the middle of the night in London by our carbon monoxide alarm. I jumped out of bed, turned off the gas and opened all the windows. Happily I am here to tell the tale, but it was quite scary at the time.

I support these measures, but I have three concerns about the practicalities of putting these measures in place. First, how will the Government make landlords aware of these regulations? I understand the Government have already informed local authorities, fire stations, letting agencies and various landlord associations but, disappointingly, as my noble friend Lord Marlesford said, 60% of landlords do not know of the existence of the regulations and yet they have to comply by 1 October this year.

It is a great pity that local authorities do not have a register of all landlords in their area as this would make this exercise so much easier. Last June, the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, asked an Oral Question on the private rented sector. I suggested that as all new occupants are legally obliged to complete the council tax registration form, there should be a single change to that form requiring that they give the name, address and contact details of their landlord, if appropriate. In a few years a complete list of landlords would be compiled. I raise this point again as I fully expect that when I suggested it in June it fell on stony ground. I hope this time the Minister and her department will give this suggestion serious consideration.

I go back to the question of how the Government intend to inform landlords of these regulations. For my part, nobody, not the local authority, the fire station or anybody else, has contacted me about this. I know about it only as a Member of this House.

Secondly, even if a landlord knows about these regulations, I seriously doubt that logistically it is possible for him to fit them before l October. I can imagine a landlord going to a supplier saying he would like 100 smoke alarms and 200 carbon monoxide alarms only to be told that there are only half a dozen of each in stock and that other suppliers up and down the country are in the same boat. When eventually he gets the right number of alarms, he will then need to find a professional to fit them only to be told to join the queue, which may be weeks or months long.

Thirdly, the landlord may have problems with access to his properties. Although I have keys to all my properties, I certainly would not enter without contacting the tenant first. It could take larger landlords weeks before they have access to all their properties, just to see whether those properties have the requisite number of alarms. The landlord then has to acquire the alarms and arrange for them to be fitted before he is compliant with these regulations, all before 1 October, but that could take weeks if not months.

So I fully support what the Government are trying to achieve with these regulations but I have concerns about informing landlords and the unnecessarily hasty deadline of 1 October. Why not 1 January or 1 April, for example? Regulation with excellent intentions has been spoilt by not thinking through the detail.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate this evening. Perhaps I may first thank my noble friend Lord Crickhowell, because if I do not thank him now I may well forget, but I will refer to his comments in due course. I apologise to him for what happened the other day. I never knowingly omit noble Lords; I try to answer everybody’s questions, but on that occasion I failed.

My noble friend Lord Marlesford talked about the date of 4 September—in fact, many noble Lords referred to it. In his area in the eastern region, I understand a newsletter went out at the end of August. I am not saying that he has seen it, but I know that landlords associations up and down the country were making their members aware. Of course, if you are not a member of the landlords association you may well not have seen it, but it was making landlords aware from the end of August.

My noble friend talked also about the lack of a grace period. There is no statutory requirement to include a grace period. It is government policy that regulatory measures affecting businesses are brought into force on a common commencement date, which is usually either 6 April or 1 October, to help businesses plan for new regulations. The Government believe that it is important to enforce the regulations as soon as possible to help to protect the lives of private sector tenants. A considerable period has been allowed for landlords to prepare for the new duties—as I said, the regulations were laid in draft back in March.

There is also in effect a grace period, because where a landlord is in breach—the noble Lord, Lord Best, referred to this—they will have 28 days to comply with a remedial notice. If they do so, the local housing authority may not impose a penalty charge.

[Earl Cathcart]

My Lords, to get this straight, is my noble friend the Minister saying, in effect, that landlords may ignore this regulation until such time as the health and safety officer or the housing officer gets round to feeling their collar because they have been reported by, let us say, their tenant and that, even then, they still have 28 days to comply? The noble Lords, Lord Beecham and Lord Hunt, talked about publicity for tenants because, without it, the possibility of a tenant knowing about this regulation is remote. Therefore, a landlord would be quite unlucky to have a tenant who knew about it, let alone reported non-compliance. It is just not going to happen in sufficient numbers to achieve what the regulation is seeking.

[Baroness O’Cathain (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister said in respect of the 28 days that a local housing authority “may not” fine. Could that be changed to “will not”? Would a landlord have a period of grace of 28 days after receiving a notification that they were not complying?