Harvey’s Law

Debate between Derek Twigg and Mike Hancock

Monday 2nd March 2015 Westminster Hall

[Derek Twigg]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct about that, but, as I said, I fail to see how there can be a great cost, because of the equipment that the Highways Agency currently holds and because it will have to remove the body, take it away and deal with it anyway. Harvey’s law campaigners believe that most of the additional cost would be in paperwork. The campaign has done a lot of work on the matter and estimates that that might be in the region of £15,500. Even so, that is a small amount of money given the size of the overall problem, but I stress that it has been difficult to pin down costs. At the end of the day, all the work needs to be done anyway, so I find it difficult to understand why the change has been made on the basis of a cut. That does not seem to add up, and I think that the Minister needs to have a look at that.

Finally, constituents have asked me to raise the issue of cats as well—some of my hon. Friends who are in the Chamber are cat owners. Although there is no legislation in place for the compulsory microchipping of cats—the onus is on the pet owners—they should be afforded the same dignity as dogs in the procedure for scanning their deceased bodies, with every effort made to contact the owner.

To conclude, what we are asking for is both reasonable and morally the right thing to do. It is not unreasonable or ridiculous.

[Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South) (Ind)]

I apologise for missing the start of the hon. Gentleman’s speech—I was detained elsewhere in the House. If we go for legislation, does he have any idea how long that will take? I have had letters from people saying, “Isn’t it better to get a promise from the Government to do something?” To wait for legislation might mean that the wait is too long.

[Derek Twigg]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, but he might have missed the part of my speech where I referred to that. We want the procedures put back in place, so that scanning takes place and can be done pretty quickly.

[Mr Hancock]

Immediately.

[Derek Twigg]

Exactly, very quickly indeed, but we also want legislation. We can do both those things, which is what I urge the Minister to do today. As I said, that does not appear to be overly expensive. By allowing the change in the procedure, we could appear heartless. There is no need for that, or for causing massive additional anguish and grief to those who have lost their beloved pets in such tragic circumstances. Although I am not a pet owner, when I speak to pet owners who have lost their pets I find it difficult to understand the anguish that they have gone through. It is palpable, and we should keep that in mind.

I hope that the Minister will listen to the strong case that the campaigners have made and that Members will make today in the debate. I was disappointed by the reply that I received from him by letter, but previously he has always been helpful and gone out of his way to try to help, particularly on constituency issues. On this wider issue, which is of national interest, I am sure he will be equally interested to try to do his best. I hope that he will do that and that we will get some good news.

Academies Bill [Lords]

Debate between Derek Twigg and Mike Hancock

Thursday 22nd July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Derek Twigg]

My hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) will recall that we both made our maiden speeches on Labour’s flagship Bill in 1997. He will also recall the optimism that existed in the country then for education and for the incoming Government. How different the mood is today. My constituency, which has been devastated—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) might laugh, but he is laughing at the fact that 11 schools have been taken out of the project, with three under review, and at the impact that that has had on more than 7,000 children in my constituency. Frankly, I say to him that this is no laughing matter and I shall ensure that my constituents understand that the coalition thinks that it is.

As the shadow Minister said, what has happened in constituencies such as mine has resulted in absolute devastation. The amendment is very interesting because it allows us to discuss the capital programme and how we should see that in relation to what has happened to the BSF programme and how we spend capital in the future. What is also interesting is that this Government are having a review of capital expenditure, yet they are pressing ahead with the Bill. Both have an impact on each other, so this is a remarkable situation.

Let me deal with what is being done and what is being spent. In yesterday’s Westminster Hall debate, the Under-Secretary of State for Education talked about lavish expenditure on schools. I think that our schools deserve lavish expenditure. When he tried to say that somehow this was inefficient, I pointed out to him that last year’s National Audit Office report said that the cost of BSF schools was no more than any other programme and, in fact, was cheaper than the original academies that were built. It is not the case that these schools were in any way inefficient or that the money was not available.

[Mr Mike Hancock]

rose—

[Derek Twigg]

I will certainly give way to a member of the coalition.

[Mr Hancock]

I am slightly curious about the hon. Gentleman’s comment that our schools deserve lavish expenditure. What on earth was going on during the past 13 years, when so many schools were allowed to be neglected and none of the resources that were needed were coming from the Government?

[Derek Twigg]

I am surprised at that intervention, although I suppose I should not be. In the past 13 years, £24 million has been spent on schools in Halton. Let me give the hon. Gentleman one example. Ditton primary school waited years for a new school building, and once Labour came into power it got one built. A number of schools have had major building programmes and major improvements made, so it is not the case—it is plain incorrect—to say that Labour did nothing until the BSF programme. In fact, significantly more was done under Labour than was done in 18 years of a Tory Government. His party now supports such a Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hancock]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. It is strange how things can change and memories can lapse in a short time. I am disappointed that Labour Members have not been more forthright in apologising. The hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) suggested that we were laughing at what he was saying, but that could not have been further from the truth. Certainly nobody on these Benches was laughing; we were nearly in tears over what was happening.

[Derek Twigg]

It was the Member sitting behind the hon. Gentleman who was laughing, but he has now left the Chamber.

[Mr Hancock]

If any Member laughed, I would be angry. I feel that in the past 13 years we have wasted opportunity after opportunity. Like the hon. Gentleman, I was full of enthusiasm when we heard the words “Education, education, education” coming from No. 10 —not once, but umpteen times. What did that really mean? Why did it all go so manifestly wrong? Why were schools in my constituency that were desperately in need of help not given it? Why did the city council go cap in hand to Ministers on three occasions begging for the resources to build a new King Richard school—not in my constituency but in that of the then Labour Minister? It was not given the resources that the school desperately needed.

I am sad that this debate is intertwined with the awfulness over what has happened to our schools as regards Building Schools for the Future. I agree with the hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) and others who have spoken that this is not just about the quality of education. Schools provide a cocktail for children. As well as a good education, they provide a safe haven and a structure and buildings which give a community a sense of being. That is particularly true of large comprehensives. I have comprehensives in my city with close to 2,000 children in some of the most densely populated areas of Europe, let alone Great Britain. A school is seen very much as a focal point and an important aspect of community life, and it is very sad not to have the resources to rekindle its ability to serve several more generations.

The amendment is correct because it does more than probe. It spells out the inadequacies of the Bill, which does not talk about failure, but about taking resources from other areas. It presents a threat. If the idea of free schools gets off the ground, then fine—if that is what people want, let people choose to have it. I do not support it, and I cannot believe I ever will. However, I do not want to see resources taken from the schools I represent, which are desperately in need of new buildings and more equipment. I do not want those kids or those parents to be persuaded to go to a school that will not have science labs or outside space, and will not allow children to develop to their full potential. There is nothing in the Bill that says a free school will have to ensure that every child who goes there will have every opportunity to fulfil their potential in whatever direction they want to go in educational terms. That is a fundamental failure of the Bill.

I admire the Secretary of State enormously for his gung-ho approach to things. It was long overdue that we had Ministers who were prepared to fight their corner in the way that he does. Even when he is wrong, he comes out fighting. He is prepared to take a few blows, but he also likes to deliver a couple back. His deputy Minister, the hon. Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb), has done an excellent job on this Bill, despite the fact that he must understand, like many of us, that the extreme frustrations felt in this House are mirrored a million times over around the country. There is a lot of uncertainty in the education family, whether teachers, governors or whoever, about where the proposals will lead. In many ways, it is a mistake. That is why I will be supporting the amendment, which I commend to the whole Committee.