Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Tuesday 19th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

As my hon. Friend knows—he is a real champion not just of Carlisle, but of Cumbria and the Cumbrian economy—we are working with local authority leaders and other elected representatives on whether we can have a new governance arrangement in Cumbria, which might include an elected Mayor. This is a decision for Cumbria, of course, but it has come to us with this proposal, and we are working hard with the people of Cumbria to see whether we can get an arrangement that boosts jobs, boosts investment and makes sure that decisions that affect Cumbria are taken in Cumbria.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Does the northern powerhouse occur in Redcar where the steel industry has been closed because of the Chancellor allowing the Chinese to dump steel? Are they talking about the northern powerhouse at Scunthorpe, where they have lost more than a thousand jobs? Are they talking about it at Port Talbot, where they are going to lose a lot more jobs? The truth is that they do not talk about the northern powerhouse in the coalfields where the Tories have shut the last three pits. They call it the northern poorhouse. That is its real name.

[Mr Osborne]

The hon. Gentleman seems to forget that the Redcar works first closed under the Labour Government that he supported. It is also the case that during that Government, which he supported from the Government Benches, the number of steel jobs lost in this country was 30,000. We are doing everything we can to preserve the steel jobs that remain. We are working with the steel industry. We have acceded to almost all its requests, and we are looking at the last remaining one, which is changes to business rates—again, something that never happened under a Labour Government. We will report on that at the Budget. We are working to make this the competitive place to do business, and if we adopted the policies of the Opposition, where dividends are not paid to investors and flying pickets are reintroduced, do they really think that a single overseas investor, such as Tata Steel, would be expanding their business in the United Kingdom?

Charter for Budget Responsibility

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Wednesday 14th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

It is not a political gimmick to have sound public finances. What is a political gimmick is coming out on the eve of your conference with some policy that says you support what we are doing, and then two weeks later turning up in the House of Commons and voting against it. Indeed, the hon. Member for Bassetlaw has described the policy of the Labour party as “a huge joke”.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

That was two days ago. Two days is a long time in politics.

[Mr Osborne]

The hon. Member for Bolsover has got back his party and we’re pleased for him.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Osborne]

I absolutely give my hon. Friend that commitment, because we have a responsibility to represent the working people of this country, who have been completely abandoned by the Labour party. That makes us the true party of labour here in this House of Commons.

[Mr Skinner]

rose—

[Mr Osborne]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman in a moment.

Of course, the problem with people who say that now is a good time to borrow is that they always say it is a good time to borrow: in bad times they say we should borrow because we cannot afford not to, and in good times they say we should borrow because we can afford it. According to them, there is never a right time to stop borrowing and start saving. That is precisely the thinking that got Britain into a mess eight years ago.

This budget charter provides the discipline we need along with the flexibility we might require. It says that debt as a share of GDP should be falling every year when the economy is growing normally, but when recessions come or economic growth is very weak and below 1% the rule is suspended and the automatic stabilisers kick in. Then the Chancellor of the day will come to Parliament and present a plan to return the public finances to health and Members will either support or reject that plan. That is simple, clear, accountable, strong and flexible. It is a commitment to sound money and stability—the bedrock of economic security for working people.

The third argument we have heard today is that we do not need fiscal rules at all and that they are meaningless. Again, I disagree. I believe that democratic Governments should set out their approach to public spending. It is the public’s money, after all, and we should be held to account by them. Successful countries do set out long-term objectives and hold their Government Departments to account, rather than lurch from one year to another.

Of course, rules are meaningless if people are their own judges of the rules they set—we know that from the golden rule the Labour party set when it was in office—but we have an independent Office for Budget Responsibility and it is the impartial judge of whether we deliver what we promise.

There is an argument that because we have the OBR it can come to its own conclusion about the soundness of our fiscal policy, but that is profoundly undemocratic. Public spending should be determined by this House of Commons. That is why we are having this debate and this vote tonight. Under our system, the rules are set democratically and are independently judged, and the people can hold us to account.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Osborne]

Let me make a little progress, because I know that many people want to speak and this is a short debate—

[Mr Skinner]

rose—

[Mr Osborne]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman in due course—[Hon. Members: “Go on.”] Oh, all right. Come on, let’s hear him.

[Mr Skinner]

If everything in the Tory garden is lovely and if the Chancellor believes in fixing the roof while the sun is shining, why did he desert the people of Redcar?

Greece

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Monday 29th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My right hon. Friend is right to point out that in effect what has happened over the past few years is that the private exposures to Greece have been converted into eurozone public exposures and, of course, into IMF exposure. That is part of what has happened. One key decision that we took in the previous Parliament was to get the UK out of these eurozone bail-outs. The previous Government had signed us up to those bail-outs, but the Prime Minister got us out of them and, as a result, dramatically reduced the UK’s direct exposure. But, as I have said, we are part of the financial system of Europe and we will be affected if there is a Greek exit.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Instead of comparing Greece with Britain, would it not make more sense to compare Greece with Ukraine? Both are debtor nations, yet Ukraine is allowed to continue to borrow money from the IMF and Greece is not. Why is that, and did the right hon. Gentleman discuss that matter?

[Mr Osborne]

It is fair to say that the IMF has provided considerable support to both Ukraine and Greece. Indeed, the combined support that has been provided by the eurozone and the IMF is considerably greater to Greece. The discussion was the extension of the current programme, and of a potential new programme. Those negotiations were under way, but the creditors in this case were demanding certain conditions. That is what happens when a country is part of the euro, which is why I do not recommend our joining it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Tuesday 4th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne)]

The core purpose of the Treasury is to ensure the stability and prosperity of the economy.

[Mr Skinner]

How on earth can the Chancellor of the Exchequer justify a tax cut of £3 billion to those getting more than £150,000—like Nigel Farage—while at the same time cutting the wages of nurses and midwives? What a load of hypocrisy.

[Mr Osborne]

We have cut taxes for 25 million working people. In Bolsover, there are more people in work, fewer people unemployed and the claimant count is down by a third. It is the Conservative party that is the party of the working people now.

Autumn Statement

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Thursday 5th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My right hon. Friend puts his argument incredibly well. He has also argued that the best national security policy a country can have is to make sure that it is dealing with its debts and has sustainable public finances. Debt interest remains far too large a part of the Government’s budget, because the national debt went up so much under Labour. It left us with an 11% budget deficit, which we are now of course bringing down. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that debt interest—the bills of economic failure—is what we were bequeathed by the previous Government.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

In the real world, is it not a fact that working people are faced with cuts in real wages, part-time jobs and zero-hours contracts? It is nothing short of purgatory for those who have to work for a living, and a paradise for the bankers. On Reverend Flowers, is it not a bit of a cheek for the Chancellor to talk about the subject of lining people’s nostrils, while at the same he is lining the pockets of the people on millionaire’s row?

[Mr Osborne]

The people who sucked up to the bankers and brought the British banking system to its knees are sitting on the Labour Benches. [Interruption.] The shadow Chancellor shakes his head. He is in denial. He was the City Minister when RBS bought ABN AMRO and when Northern Rock was selling 125% mortgages. I agree with the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) that working people have paid a very high price for that catastrophic economic failure.

Economic Policy

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Monday 25th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend puts it very simply. It is a bit like the arsonist calling the fire brigade and then complaining that we have not put the fire out quickly enough.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Does not the Chancellor realise that it has been three years of continuous failure: first, a recession, then a double-dip recession, and now the relegation of the pound sterling? If he had been a football manager he would have been out on his neck already. The people think that he is not fit to deliver the next Budget—why does he not get out?

[Mr Osborne]

There seems to be amnesia about Labour’s 13 years in office. The hon. Gentleman talks about a double-dip recession. The first recession was a 6% contraction in our economic activity while he was supporting a Labour Government, with a 12% budget deficit, a higher rate of unemployment and more youth unemployment than we have today. We are sorting out these problems. Of course it takes time, but, frankly, the prescription of the hon. Gentleman and other Labour Members would put us right back in the mess that they left this Government with.

Autumn Statement

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend reminds us that we get a daily verdict on the credibility of our economic policy from bond investors. We are borrowing money more cheaply than anyone who has done my job before us, and there is a real benefit for taxpayers and members of the public in that. We have saved £33 billion in debt interest that we were forecast to have to pay in 2010, which, as I said in my statement, is more than the entire defence budget.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

When the cheering has died down on the Budget statement, it will be just as it was on previous occasions, such as in 2010, when the Chancellor made his first statement. When it was stripped bare, it was a totally different story. In 2010, he promised massively to cut the deficit; but here we are, two and a half years later, and he has cut the nurses and the national health service. This posh boy never changes. Now, instead of being a Bullingdon boy who wrecks the hotel rooms, as Chancellor of the Exchequer he wrecks the economy. It is time he went.

[Mr Osborne]

I am not sure that that personal attack warrants a proper reply.

Bank of England

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Monday 26th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

Mr Carney has been pretty tough in Canada, and Canada has a much better record than this country of avoiding bail-outs and keeping Canadian banks safe. As chair of the Financial Stability Board, he has been very keen to secure international agreement on new, tougher rules on pay, risk-taking and the like in order to ensure that individual financial centres do not try to out-compete each other for less and less regulation. I should also make clear that he supports the John Vickers reforms that will be introduced in the Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill, including the ring-fencing of retail banking, which is the really major reform of banking that the coalition Government are bringing about.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Having listened to all the plaudits, all I can say is that this man Mr Carney and Mr Bean had better be good.

[Mr Osborne]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that Dr Carney and Dr Bean are excellent.

LIBOR (FSA Investigation)

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Monday 2nd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend is right: we are proceeding with a change to the structure of British banking, in which we will ring-fence the retail banks from their investment banking arms. [Interruption.] There will be plenty of opportunity for Labour ex-Ministers such as the shadow Chancellor to appear before the Committee, if he is worried about that. We will introduce a Bill, which will go through Parliament next year. In answer to the point about a public inquiry, why spend three or four years before getting to legislation? Why do we not use the opportunity to get it right now, and amend the Bill that will be before Parliament?

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

With hedge funds providing up to 50% of all the money that goes into the Tory party political coffers, can we be sure that those criminal penalties that are referred to can extend to any or all of those Tory MPs mentioned in The Independent on Sunday yesterday?

[Mr Osborne]

I do not think that that question deserves an answer. The inquiry will do its job, and I hope it will do so on a cross-party basis.

LIBOR (FSA Investigation)

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Thursday 28th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

If we are going to study the culture of the banking system and the changes that have taken place over the years, would it not be fair to start from the fact that the late ’80s, with the big bang in the City, is when the culture of the banks changed dramatically? If we are going to lay blame, let’s get the history books right.

There is another scandal with the banks. Now that the Chancellor is in the mood to tame them, what about looking at the question that blind and disabled people are contributing more to reduce the Government’s deficit than all the banks put together? Sort that out as well. As for saying somebody is absent, the Chancellor ought to be explaining why he did not turn up at the BBC and face the music with Paxman.

[Mr Osborne]

It is one thing not to appear on the BBC’s “Newsnight”, and another not to be in the House of Commons to answer to the public and to Parliament for one’s own mistakes during the years of irresponsibility. That is the question the shadow Chancellor will no doubt have to answer today. As for history lessons, let me say this to the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner): he has never once got up and apologised for the mistakes of the Government he consistently supported over 13 years. It is no good blaming what happened in the 1980s; we are talking about what happened in 2005, 2006, and 2007, when he and his cronies were in charge.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Tuesday 26th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I certainly support my hon. Friend and congratulate her on organising the jobs fair. As the most recent unemployment figure showed, not only is unemployment falling but 200,000 private sector jobs have been created in the last few months in our economy. When it comes specifically to small businesses, as I set out to the House earlier, the national loan guarantee scheme has already helped more than 10,000 businesses with loans, we have cut the small companies corporation tax from the rate we inherited from the last Government, and the freeze in fuel duty will also help small businesses.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

T3. In a time of austerity, when food banks are increasing in almost every town and city in Britain, is it not high time that the Government published a comprehensive list of all those people who are profiting from these tax avoidance schemes? Even Graham Aaronson, a Government adviser, forecast today that if something is not done there will be riots on the streets. This is a home-grown problem. Do not blame anybody else. Let us have a list of all those people close to home and those on millionaires row.

[Mr Osborne]

The last Labour Government, which the hon. Gentleman supported, had 13 years to introduce a general anti-avoidance rule; we are introducing one after just two years in office. The last Labour Government had 13 years to stop stamp duty avoidance schemes; this Government, after two years in office, are doing exactly that and stopping those schemes. The last Labour Government had 13 years to cap uncapped income tax reliefs, which are used for avoidance; we have introduced and are introducing that cap. Frankly, actions speak louder than words.

IMF

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Monday 23rd April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I completely agree with the former Foreign Secretary. The agreement at the weekend is about ensuring that the IMF is fully resourced to deal with whatever is thrown at it. Of course, if problems were to emerge and future programmes were to be required, there would be an enormous amount of scrutiny of what those programmes would consist of, what the conditions would be, and the like, but what we would not want at such a time, when the markets would no doubt be incredibly febrile and when confidence in Britain and other countries would be evaporating, is a question mark hanging over whether the IMF has got the money to solve the problem. That is why countries from around the world have decided to make this contribution.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Does not the Chancellor realise that he would have a much stronger case on loans to the IMF if he was not practising austerity here in Britain and calling on all families to pay for the bankers? Does not he recall that when the IMF was set up we had a Labour Government who introduced a national health service, built a welfare state, built education for all and left us with fewer than 500,000 people unemployed? That Government went for growth, and that is the kind of policy he should be going for here, instead of calling for austerity for everybody else.

[Mr Osborne]

What I say is that the hon. Gentleman is betraying the spirit of Ernest Bevin, Hugh Dalton, Clement Attlee and the members of that Government, who came together after the second world war to build new international institutions to make sure that, in future, the world would come together to sort out its economic problems, instead of walking away from other countries, which is what we would be doing if we followed the hon. Gentleman’s advice.

Banking Commission Report

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Monday 19th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

We need legislation that works effectively for British banks across Europe; British banks have subsidiaries in other European countries. Actually, a single market in financial services would be a very good thing—and it is a good thing for this country, although we need to see it deepen. We also need to make sure that countries with very large banking systems, such as our own, are able to take national decisions that protect our banking systems. I am confident that we can secure agreement to that.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Is there not a possibility that if the banks are split up, there will be more top bankers than there are now? What we need in Britain is small business growth and large business growth. The chances are that the most reviled group of people in the land—the top bankers—are going to multiply.

[Mr Osborne]

I do not think that it automatically follows that if we ring-fence the banks, we double the number of bankers. It is our intention, yes, to have a successful financial services industry, which is very important in Derbyshire, Cheshire, where my constituency is, the west midlands and Scotland, as well as in the City of London.

However, we do not want our entire economy to be in hock to the City of London; that is what we are seeking to avoid. We do not want to put all our bets on the City of London. That is what happened over the last 13 years, and it went disastrously wrong. The Government are determined to build up other sectors of the economy, including manufacturing and small businesses. The very fact that later today we are debating the Government’s apprenticeship programme shows our commitment as a Government to building up those other industries.

Autumn Statement

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Tuesday 29th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. We have been able to take action on fuel duty so that taxes on petrol will be 10p lower than they would otherwise have been. We have taken action to reduce the increase in rail fares. I also stress that we have helped small businesses that employ people by extending the business rate freeze.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

If we are all in it together, why has the Chancellor announced further restrictions on pay for working people and their families, while the bankers who caused the recession are taking home salaries of up to £4.5 million? Is it because the people on that side on millionaire’s row are looking after their friends in the banking system, while kicking the workers in the teeth?

[Mr Osborne]

I think the hon. Gentleman will find that it is half of the last Labour Cabinet who are working in the City at the moment.

If the hon. Gentleman is so passionate about this issue, why did he not press the Government he supported for 13 years to introduce a bank levy? On public sector pay, the shadow Chancellor was completely silent about whether the Labour party supported 1% average increases after the freeze ends. No doubt we will find out more about that later this afternoon.

Banking

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Wednesday 9th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I agree with my hon. Friend that the banks should show restraint and an appreciation of the society in which they operate, the challenges that we face with the economy and, indeed, the squeeze on families’ incomes, in part due to the high prices of things such as oil and food. I make this observation: the bonuses this year will be lower than those in the last year of the Labour Government; and, as a result of this agreement, they will also be lower than they would have been, a point that will be confirmed by the independent non-executive director of the individual bank.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Why should anybody believe that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has got the guts to take on the banks, when today it is revealed that he and his friends in the Tory party—those on millionaires’ row—have picked up £44 million from those bankers in the City? Why should we believe all this rubbish?

[Mr Osborne]

I thought that the hon. Gentleman might ask a question like that, so I did a bit of research and discovered that one of the biggest donors to the shadow Chancellor’s party leadership campaign was a Michael Sanzone, who started off at ABN Amro, moved to RBS and ended up at Lehman Brothers before supporting his campaign. They are probably the four most catastrophic decisions of recent years.

Bank Bonuses

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Tuesday 11th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I agree with all of that. We want to see bonus restraint; we want to see bonuses lower this year—[Interruption.] Lower this year than they were under the Labour Government. That is one objective. Secondly, we want to see bonuses deferred. Thirdly, we want to make sure that they do not reward risk-taking that goes badly wrong—that is why we want the ability to claw back. We also want to get away from the system—again, this thrived under the previous Government—of guaranteed bonuses, which people got regardless of what happened to their financial institution. That is precisely what the code of practice addresses, it is precisely why we are looking at greater transparency and greater shareholder involvement, and it is precisely why I want this new settlement with the banks.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Is not the truth of the matter that this Government want the students, the homeless and the disabled to pay for this deficit, while their banking friends—the Tories’ banking friends—will get off scot-free, despite causing the problem in the first place? It is a bucket load of hypocrisy.

[Mr Osborne]

Again, the hon. Gentleman has amnesia. He seems to forget that for 13 years he supported a Government who allowed this problem to develop. Indeed, as far as I can tell, half the people who were in that Cabinet have gone on to work in the City.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Tuesday 21st December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend raises a good point. That is something on which we are seeking official advice, and I will keep him informed of any progress that we make on it.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Now that the Chancellor has adopted a more belligerent tone in the last few minutes, will he open up and tell us what he really thinks about the WikiLeaks cable?

[Mr Osborne]

rose—

Autumn Forecast

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Monday 29th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

That is, of course, a very significant feature of what is happening today. It is completely unprecedented for a Chancellor to present an autumn forecast that has been produced independently by people who have been verified by the all-party Treasury Committee and who had their own separate press conference. In addition, Members have had a couple of hours to look at this document. If one thinks back, for example, to a year ago and the pre-Budget report, when the previous Chancellor produced the autumn forecast, one recalls that he rattled off the numbers. There was absolutely no opportunity for the shadow Chancellor to have examined those numbers or to have looked at the document, or for any other Member in the House to have done so. It was the Chancellor’s judgment, rather than an independent judgment. Our approach is a major improvement to fiscal policy making in this country. The legislation is before the House of Lords, and I hope that when it comes to the House of Commons it will have all-party support.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Why are the Irish banks worth saving yet Northern Rock was not?

[Mr Osborne]

What the Irish banks are getting, in many cases, is a capital injection. As in the UK, the banks have been very poorly regulated. We are improving our regulation system. If the hon. Gentleman does not think we should be supporting the Irish banking system, the impact of his proposals on his constituents in Derbyshire would be very severe.

Proposed Public Expenditure Cuts

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Monday 13th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

Let me give my hon. Friend a specific example: disability living allowance. We were faced with a number of options, but we decided that we wanted to keep it as a universal benefit, and instead look at the criteria that allowed people to get on it and ensure that they were entitled to stay on it. We are particularly conscious of benefits on which people in vulnerable positions are dependent, but with each benefit, we are proceeding with caution, seeking as wide a consensus as possible. However, my hon. Friend has my commitment that we are doing everything that we can to protect the vulnerable during this process. I would also make a general observation: the thing that really hurts the most vulnerable in our society is when a country loses control of its public finances.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Is the Chancellor really aware that as a result of these successive sadistic statements about cuts, war pensioners are ringing Members of Parliament and people who are severely disabled are frightened to death of losing their benefits? Is it not time that he had the gall to tell the truth: that this is all about using the deficit, which we had planned for, as an opportunity to carry out the Tory ideology of cutting the power of the state?

[Mr Osborne]

As the hon. Gentleman is now a Blairite, I thought that I would read out what his master said recently, which is relevant to what he has just said:

“I look at those policy papers now—the work on…the use of social security budgets…and I do think how different it would have been if we had done it. If we had…not wandered into a cul-de-sac of mixed messages and indecision… But there it is. It didn’t happen, and that’s it.”

We are trying to do the things that he once promised in his election manifesto.

Financial Services Regulation

Debate between Dennis Skinner and George Osborne

Wednesday 16th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

The risks around Lehman Brothers are well documented.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

What are they?

[Mr Osborne]

Suddenly, the hon. Gentleman is interested in the regulation of Lehman Brothers, but there we go.

The risks were pretty clear. No arrangements were in place for winding up a large and complex financial firm. That was one concern. No arrangement was in place that would allow a global firm to avoid dying nationally in the way that it did. It was heavily exposed to, for example, the derivatives markets and other things. That had not been spotted either by the British regulator or, of course, the American regulator, which was in the lead. We need to investigate precisely that kind of issue, not just here in Britain, but across the world. That is being done in the international councils on which we sit. But surely, whether with Lehman Brothers, the Royal Bank of Scotland, HBOS or Northern Rock, we must learn the lesson of what went wrong. Again, I find it breathtaking that, at the beginning of the Parliament, the Labour party has set itself against changing the system of regulation. [Hon. Members: “No we haven’t.”] Labour Members may say that, but that is exactly what the shadow Chancellor did about 53 minutes ago.