Points of Order

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Wednesday 31st October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman is usually keenly attentive to his chances to contribute to debates in the Chamber. May I suggest to him that the debate on the Floor of the House on 8 November might be a suitable opportunity for him to seek to catch my eye or that of the occupant of the Chair at the time? He will then be able to develop his thoughts on this matter in full detail.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Might it be possible to place in The House magazine an article, perhaps written by the Clerk, on the importance of using the third person singular, rather than “you”, in this House? This is not just fussy parliamentarianism, but a very important point that allows us to exchange the most bitter views without making them personal. We should not “you” it, but make references in the third person. We should not throw away what is quite an important protection for us. We can be friends outside the House whatever anger we have in this Chamber, provided that we keep it to the third person.

[Mr Speaker]

I appreciate the support of the right hon. Gentleman and think that his point is valid. I will reflect on his particular suggestion. Certainly, if there is to be an author, it is scarcely conceivable that there could be a better author than the person whom he has just identified.

If there are no further points of order and the appetite for them is exhausted and the Clerk is suitably complimented, we can move to the 10-minute rule motion.

Afghanistan (NATO Strategy)

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Tuesday 18th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I do not think that I have ever seen a Defence Secretary so humiliated. Twice he has had to be dragged to the House, instead of having decided to make a statement—first to talk about the original problem, and now to discuss the change of policy. Either his officials are informed but do not tell him things, or he is not in charge of his officials. It is time for this Government to get a grip, and to start telling the generals what to do, instead of re-reading generals’ press releases at the Dispatch Box. The fundamental problem remains the same: I do not believe that our country is willing to accept any more blood sacrifices, now that the strategy of fighting, training and patrolling with the Afghans has been blown away by Washington and the generals in the field. The Prime Minister announced today that the Cabinet will re-examine the policy. I say: the quicker the better.

[Mr Speaker]

We have got the gist. We will try to detect a question in there somewhere.

Afghanistan (Force Protection)

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Monday 17th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Since the House last met, two men from the Yorkshire Regiment—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I apologise for interrupting the right hon. Gentleman, but at this stage all he has to do—we look forward to hearing his mellifluous tones erelong—is request a statement on this important matter. We will not have to wait long to hear his views.

[Mr MacShane]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the security of UK soldiers in Afghanistan.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is understandably much interest in this urgent question, but the House will be conscious also that there is a statement by the Secretary of State for Education to follow, and I have to take account of the likely level of interest in that and in the subsequent business. I intend to run the urgent question for approximately half an hour from now, but there will be a premium on brevity from Back Benchers and Front Benchers alike.

[Mr MacShane]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting this urgent question, which has allowed the Secretary of State to make a full statement. Since last the House met, as the Secretary of State has recorded—I exchanged some words with him about my question before asking it—two men from the Yorkshire Regiment and one from the Grenadier Guards have died.

My question is simple: why, why, why are we still allowing our soldiers to be sacrificed to no evident purpose? Just after the Prime Minister entered No. 10, he went to Afghanistan and reported to the House. I urged him then, and I think he agreed, that elected Ministers had to take back command and control from the unelected military-Ministry of Defence nexus that had dictated policy. Since then, 146 British soldiers have died, more than one for every week for which he has been in office. They have died in an unwinnable conflict for an unattainable end, to no strategic benefit for our country. It does no honour at all to those who have sacrificed their lives to heap more bodies on the funeral pyre. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori—or pro Britannia mori—is, again, the old, old lie.

I am not urging scuttle. I am urging a drawback to a position in which our men will no longer be killed before they can come home. We have done all the good that we can do. It is time to say, “It’s over.” Frankly, if any more of our brave young boys of barely 20 die, their mothers, fathers and families will ask, “Why, why, why?” The Secretary of State is an honourable man, as are my Front-Bench colleagues. None of us wants to be where we are, but it is over, and we will have no answer if any more of our people are sacrificed.

Defamation Bill

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Wednesday 12th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

This is a welcome Bill. I welcome the constructive approach of the new Secretary of State and his team and congratulate them on their appointments. The Bill will now go to another place, where we are rather more well provided with learned friends, the lawyers, who may have some thoughts on how it might have to be amended.

Nearly two years ago, in an exchange with the Secretary of State’s predecessor, the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), I asked:

“Do we not need a small claims court for libel cases which could quickly…at a low cost in damages and expenses deliver remedial justice, apology and correction?”—[Official Report, 29 March 2011; Vol. 526, c. 161.]

I very much hoped that this Bill would satisfy that request, but to be honest, it does not. It tidies up many of the problems to do with libel tourism and scientific publication that have caused a great deal of concern and brought together a big coalition of different campaigners who have influenced all parties. However, that does not allow the small person—what one patronisingly calls “the little man”—to have the quick, swift redress that exists in other countries when he has suffered a clear wrong in a newspaper. That is why the parallel work of Lord Leveson must be taken into consideration in the other place and when the Bill comes back here so that we have a complete package of reform that puts right many of the injustices that so many people have faced at the hands of a mixture of very powerful media oligarchs and legal oligarchs.

I want particularly to refer to the problem of libel tourism. Right now, there is an ongoing case initiated by a Mr Pavel Karpov, who is a 35-year-old Interior Ministry employee in Russia. He was involved in the sequence of events that led to the death of Sergei Magnitsky, which has attracted much attention in this House. Through a unanimous resolution of the House of Commons, it has been decided that he and 59 other named Russian officials should not be allowed to enter Britain, although the Foreign Office and the Home Office are still equivocating on that. On 1 August, Mr Karpov filed an action in the High Court against William Browder, who is a British citizen, and Jamison Firestone, who is an American citizen resident in the United Kingdom—Sergei Magnitsky’s former boss and direct boss respectively—in order to silence them in their campaign to bring about justice for Mr Magnitsky. Pavel Karpov has hired Geraldine Proudler, the partner and head of the reputation and media litigation practice at Olswang, at roughly £600 an hour, when he himself earns $600 a month. He has hired Andrew Caldecott QC—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to confirm that the cases that he is describing are not the subject of active proceedings?

[Mr MacShane]

No, Sir, they are not. They are just filed at the moment and can be discussed. No charges have been initiated.

Such cases are a prime example of libel tourism. One of President Putin’s chief functionaries still thinks that he can get away with libel tourism in this country. I hope that someone in the Russian embassy reads this Bill and understands that that kind of libel tourism is no longer acceptable.

Point of Order

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In Deputy Prime Minister’s questions, there was an exchange about something called a Fruit Ninja. Sir, I do not know whether you know what a Fruit Ninja is, or whether it is a parliamentary expression as defined by “Erskine May”, but, given that apparently the Prime Minister spends an awful lot of time with one, can we all be given one so that we can understand what he is up to?

[Mr Speaker]

Well, I plead ignorance myself. I am not familiar with the thing or practice concerned, but I am comforted by the knowledge that I share that ignorance with one so learned as the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane). Sadly, his intervention, whatever its merits, did not constitute a point of order.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Monday 6th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I am sure the Minister will agree that cybercrime is quintessentially a transnational crime. Although his colleague the Minister for Immigration seems to think that the Lithuanian, Slovakian, Romanian, Bulgarian and Polish traffickers in British prisons are not from the European Union, will he inform the House what the Government’s position is on the European arrest warrant? This issue has been widely covered in the press. We brought Hussain Osman back from Rome after 7/7—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is always difficult to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman’s flow, but I am sure he is asking this question with specific reference to its potential to address the issue of cybercrime.

Point of Order

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Tuesday 17th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. On Thursday 12 January, the Russian embassy published on its website a highly personal and inaccurate attack on me. The attack related to a debate the previous day on human rights in Russia and the treatment of Sergei Magnitsky, in which several Members of all parties spoke. I believe this is the first time that a foreign embassy accredited to Her Majesty’s Government has so attacked a Member for carrying out his parliamentary duties. Clearly, the Russian embassy is not covered by the rules of privilege or free expression in Parliament, but I hope, Mr Speaker, that you do not think this is a welcome development, and that Members must be able to say what they think about other countries without coming under pressure or intimidation from embassies and accredited diplomats.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order and for notice of it. I certainly agree that no Member of the House should be intimidated in exercising his or her undoubted right to free expression in this House. I might add that although my own imagination is moderately vivid, the idea of the right hon. Gentleman being intimidated by the Russian embassy or anybody else is beyond it.

Trade Union Officials (Refund of Pay to Employers)

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Wednesday 11th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Is this in order?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Stop the clock. The right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) should behave not like a trainee rabble-rouser but rather like the elder statesman that at his best he can be.

Points of Order

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Monday 19th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. This has been the subject of some considerable discontent on both sides of the House over a sustained period. Ministers have heard me say before that conforming to the spirit of what the House expects requires the provision of a timely and substantive response to the question posed. Simply to say just before the deadline or on the day of the deadline, “I will reply to my hon. Friend as soon as possible,” really is not good enough. The hon. Gentleman is a perspicacious Member if ever there was one, and he might wish to provide that example and possibly others to the Procedure Committee—and, perhaps, to write to the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight), who chairs that august Committee and is looking into those matters—in the hope that he and his colleagues can get satisfaction.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Front Benchers’ opening statements on the Vickers report earlier this afternoon lasted more than 25 minutes. They were almost Second Reading opening speeches. Statements have become alarmingly long recently. They used to be only seven or eight minutes, and then questions allowed points to be developed. Can we get back to that general rule?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I share his concern. Ordinarily, a ministerial statement is not expected to exceed and, indeed, is expected not to exceed 10 minutes. I was informed that the nature of that statement had required something slightly longer, and in those circumstances I allowed a little extension of time for the Opposition Front Benchers, but on the right hon. Gentleman’s substantive point I agree, and I hope that we can start 2012 rather better, with crisp statements and crisp responses from Opposition Front Benchers, and then get on to the people with whom I am mainly preoccupied, namely Back Benchers. I hope that that is helpful.

Bill Presented

Local Government Finance Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Secretary Eric Pickles, supported by the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, Secretary Vince Cable, Danny Alexander, Oliver Letwin, Andrew Stunell, Robert Neill and Mr David Jones, presented a Bill to make provision about non-domestic rating; to make provision about grants to local authorities; to make provision about council tax; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 265) with explanatory notes (Bill 265-EN).

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Tuesday 25th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Will the Minister confirm that on every working morning at the UN and all its agencies there is a co-ordination meeting of all the EU ambassadors, including the UK’s, and that when they decide to speak with one voice they have far more impact than a cacophony of 27 different voices? We have to stop appeasing the “Mad-Eye Moodys” who hate anything to do with the European Union; and when we can speak as one, we should speak as one.

[Mr Speaker]

Minister?

Human Rights on the Indian Subcontinent

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Thursday 15th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order to ask you, sir, to pay a tribute on our behalf to Sir Malcolm Jack, as he rises for the last time in the chair as chief Clerk of this our House of Commons? That funny triangle of you, Sir Malcolm and his colleagues is one that the public do not know much about, but I certainly pay tribute to the fact that Sir Malcolm has been a constant source of advice, friendly help and courteous consideration. I am sure that his successor will be every bit as good.

Sir Malcolm is an expert on Portugal and has written a very fine book on it, which I can recommend to everybody who wants to understand mediaeval and renaissance Portuguese history—undoubtedly very helpful as he tries to steer his way through our Standing Orders and “Erskine May”. I invite you, Mr Speaker, as one of the last acts of this two-week session, to say just a word of thanks to him on behalf of all of us.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I endorse every word that he has just uttered, and I am delighted indeed to volunteer on behalf of the House the tribute sought by him.

Malcolm Jack has served this House with dedication, passion and intellectual flair for 44 years. His is a quite outstanding track record of selfless public service in the interest of Parliament and of the country. It has been a superb record. Malcolm is a brilliant man, not given to issuing press releases to advertise the fact. He rejoices in helping the House, he has exceptional interpersonal skills and he commands the loyalty, respect and affection of literally thousands of people who work in the House and who observe the House from outside. As he retires, he will do so with the affection and goodwill of everyone who works here, and we hope that he has a long, healthy, happy and, I suspect, very industrious and enterprising retirement.

Points of Order

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

I hope it is a point of order.

[Mr MacShane]

So do I, Sir, so do I. In general, is it in order for any right hon. or hon. Member, Prime Minister or Back Bencher, to make a defamatory statement in the House?

[Mr Speaker]

Members should take responsibility for their own statements, and of course they should not make defamatory statements about other Members, but the right hon. Gentleman is raising his point of order in the abstract, so for me it becomes hypothetical. The Speaker, I think wisely, does not seek to respond to hypothetical questions.

Points of Order

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Monday 20th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

As so often, the hon. Gentleman is right. He is absolutely right that there is no obligation on the Government to introduce their motion. They are perfectly at liberty to test the will of the House, but the organisation of Government business is a matter entirely for the Government. If they want to take note of who votes which way, or decide to sleep on the matter and reconsider—I entertain no especial prospect of that happening, but it could if that is what is in Ministers’ minds—that is a matter for Ministers.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

A day at Wimbledon!

[Mr Speaker]

I note what the right hon. Gentleman says about a lawn tennis championship taking place not far from here, but how relevant that is to Ministers’ thinking on this matter is not entirely obvious to me. We are grateful to him, nevertheless.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Tuesday 14th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

May I welcome, as I am sure the Foreign Secretary does, the arrest of Ratko Mladic and his dispatch to The Hague? Eight thousand Europeans were taken out and shot one by one in the biggest single mass murder since Katyn. It was not, if I may say so, Britain’s finest hour in foreign policy.

As we move forward in the Balkans, will the Foreign Secretary join me in urging President Tadic and responsible Serb politicians to recognise Kosovo, and to stop the blocks to Kosovo trading in the region and to its joining international institutions? The reason that Kosovo has the economic problems to which the hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) referred, is that Serbia will not allow it—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I think we have the thrust of the question. We are most grateful to the right hon. Gentleman.

European Summit

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Thursday 24th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Denis MacShane.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Obrigado, Mr Speaker.

The plain fact is that Portugal is our oldest ally. It is in trouble and we should help. When Margaret Thatcher brought the rebate back, she was questioned by a Eurosceptic on the Labour Benches who asked, “Why are you allowing more money to go from the British taxpayer to all these new countries?” She replied: “We should help Portugal”. We should do the same tonight. I hope that our Prime Minister will remember our longest, oldest friendship with any European country, and ignore the Eurosceptic waffle from those sitting behind the Front Bench.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Tuesday 15th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

But can the Foreign Secretary confirm that, actually, UN law is whatever communists in Beijing say it is? There is a whiff of Bosnia of 15, 16, 17 years ago about all this. We do not want the Foreign Secretary to talk about discussions at the UN, empty EU statements and NATO meetings that result in nothing; we want him to discover his mojo and take a lead in putting policies in place before Benghazi falls.

[Mr Speaker]

We thank the right hon. Gentleman. I call the Foreign Secretary.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Thursday 11th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Thank you.

There was interest in Mr Swales’s question and I hope that there still is.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On this subject, will the Minister meet the UK Energy-Intensive Users Group, because its report, published this week and entitled “The Cumulative Impact of Climate Change Policies on UK Energy Intensive Industries”, suggests that without a change of course, electricity prices for the steel industry—which is very important for south Yorkshire—could rise by as much as 141% by 2020? We are all climate-changers and carbon-reducers, but not at the price of eliminating our steel industry.

Points of Order

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Wednesday 15th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I can make no such arrangement. What I say to the hon. Gentleman in response to his attempted point of order is that he is a wily old hand, and some people might think—this could be uncharitable, but it might not be—that he is seeking to continue the debate. He has put his views very clearly on the record, and I have a feeling they will be heard where he wishes them to be heard. Moreover, if he wishes to follow up his grave concern on this matter with questions of one form or another and in other parliamentary ways, it is open to him to do so, and I have a hunch that he will.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I hope that this is in order. I was concerned to read in The Guardian today a statement from Jenny Watson of the Electoral Commission that was based on evidence she gave yesterday. She said that she could not really accept amendments to the alternative vote and boundary change Bill after November and that if their lordships amended it, that would make her life very difficult. Is it right for the head of an Executive agency so to dictate to or tell both the other place and, as their lordships’ amendments come back here, this place what they can and cannot amend and when they can and cannot amend it? You have been very good in bringing Ministers to the House to be held to account by Members, but the Executive consist of more than Ministers; we have these new agencies, the Electoral Commission in this case and the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority in others, where there are deep concerns about whether MPs can carry out their duties. This new state within a state just does not seem to be accountable and has an awful lot of influence.

[Mr Speaker]

The right hon. Gentleman has made his point, but we cannot have an oration on the matter. We have had a point of order—we are grateful for that—to which I will respond after I have heard from the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing).

Point of Order

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Tuesday 14th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Sir, if you go out into the corridors around here, you will find closed circuit television cameras being installed in the Central Lobby and other corridors that are normally private to Members. Is this known to you? Some people say that it is just to do with the Pope’s visit, and that is perfectly reasonable, but if that is so, can we be sure that the cameras will be taken down? I love the surveillance society. I am not sure whether the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority has an investment in making sure that we are all here and that we are going to our restaurants and coming out with the appropriate bills, but I do not like CCTV cameras in this our House of Commons.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I note what he says and am happy to look further into the matter if it is of notable interest to him and to others. In so far as the issue of security is concerned, however, I know that the right hon. Gentleman is an extremely experienced parliamentarian, so he will be aware that matters relating to security are not discussed on the Floor of the House. If there are no further points of order, we will come to the ten-minute rule motion. I call Catherine McKinnell.

Equitable Life

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Thursday 22nd July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Hon. Members]

Where’s your tie?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I apologise for interrupting the right hon. Gentleman. The question of his neckwear or lack of it is of no concern to the House. I just want to hear what he has to say.

[Mr MacShane]

Mr Speaker, I have just had extensive root canal treatment and cannot tighten anything around my neck—I am terribly sorry—but I can open my mouth. Does the Financial Secretary understand that Equitable Life policyholders will feel betrayed? When will the Government stop doing endless U-turns?

Points of Order

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Monday 19th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. At close of business tonight we will pass the estimates—an awful lot of money—without a vote. Bundled into that are the IPSA estimates, which show that £6.6 million will be spent simply on IPSA administration compared with £2 million under the previous regime. In the future, will it be possible to separate out the IPSA estimate so that we can have, if necessary, a debate and a vote on it?

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer to the right hon. Gentleman is that it is not possible to devise some new procedure for the purpose that he described. Moreover, I am not sure that it is necessary. The right hon. Gentleman has just pithily explained his precise understanding of the size of the IPSA estimate as a feature of the total estimate. If he works on the basis that everybody else is as capable of interpreting these matters as he is—that is an if, I accept—he might be satisfied that there is a general level of understanding of these important matters.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s robust stance on Iran, but it is a crime against the United Nations genocide convention to incite genocide as well as to commit it. President Ahmadinejad has called for the wiping of Israel off the map of the world. That generally means the extermination of its people. Will the Foreign Secretary consider taking to the United Nations and the International Criminal Court an indictment against President Ahmadinejad for his incitement to the genocide of the Jewish people in the middle east?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sure that the Foreign Secretary is being asked to do that in the context of discussions with his EU counterparts, and in respect of EU policy. [Interruption.] Order. I do not think that I need to hear any more. [Interruption.] Order. I do not need to hear any more.

Business of the House

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Thursday 17th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Last, but not least, I call Mr MacShane.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Thank you for the introduction, Mr Speaker.

Last night, Europe’s Conservative party leaders and Prime Ministers met for dinner, with the exception of our Prime Minister, because he is in alliance with—as the Deputy Prime Minister puts it—“nutters, anti-Semites...and homophobes”. May we have an early debate on rise of nationalist, populist extremism in eastern Europe, the worries of Jewish communities and the extent to which the Conservative party—not the Liberal Democrats—are giving cover by their alliance with these people?

Gaza Flotilla

Debate between Denis MacShane and John Bercow

Wednesday 2nd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Last but not least, I call Mr Denis MacShane.

[Mr MacShane]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I welcome the robust condemnations and statements from the Foreign Secretary and from my right hon. Friend the shadow Foreign Secretary, but is the Foreign Secretary aware that the Hamas charter states:

“There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility”,

that

“our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging”

and that

“Israel…will remain erect until Islam eliminates it”?

Such anti-Semitic, anti-Jewish language is the official doctrine and policy of Hamas. I share in all the points that the Foreign Secretary made and wish him well, but Hamas is part of the problem, not yet part of the solution.