Aleppo

Debate between David Winnick and Tobias Ellwood

Tuesday 3rd May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

Those who are familiar, as I know my hon. Friend is, with the long-term historical relationship between Russia and Syria will be aware that this is an area of the world that Russia sees as its sphere of influence. Syria supported the Soviet Union during the cold war and Assad’s father trained as a MiG pilot in Russia. There are strong ties between the countries. I would advocate that Russia recognise that although it wants to keep its influence, it is not so wedded to Assad the individual. The political transition must move forward and the people of Syria must determine who their next leader will be.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Is it not clear that although Daesh is, of course, a murderous group run by outright murderers and psychopaths, the Syrian Government have for some time been carrying out crimes against humanity on a far greater scale—aided and abetted, moreover, by a member of the United Nations Security Council?

[Mr Ellwood]

I concur with the spirit of what the hon. Gentleman says. We took steps to hold Assad to account when he crossed a line by using chemical weapons. We wanted to take action, and we came to this House, but I am afraid that this House decided that that was not the action that was needed. We need to recognise that there are occasions when a few countries in the world can stand up to dictators such as Assad, and the rest of the world looks to countries such as Britain to act. We did not at that juncture.

Syria

Debate between David Winnick and Tobias Ellwood

Tuesday 1st March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

I have gone into some detail about the urgency of the humanitarian relief work. This is partly why a cessation of hostilities was needed. In places such as Madaya, people have resorted to eating pets, such is their plight. Thanks to the agreement between Lavrov and John Kerry at the Munich security conference, which led to discussions between Putin and President Obama, we have seen this build-up of a cessation of hostilities. I was cautiously optimistic when I saw President Putin make a rare live appearance on Russian television stating his commitment to ensuring that a cessation of hostilities came about.

However, as I am sure the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, experience shows that whenever a deadline is put into a ceasefire or cessation of hostilities, there is then an effort by hardliners—by opportunists—to take advantage of the period before the deadline comes into force to gain territory, to further their lines and to make a greater impact, so that when the hostilities cease they are in a stronger position. That is exactly what we have seen in this case. We require every country, whether it be Turkey, Russia or Assad’s regime, to hold fast—to recognise that the world is watching and that although the humanitarian situation is absolutely dire, there is an international community that wants to help and can do so only if it has access to the various areas that I have articulated.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Is there any evidence whatsoever that Assad would be willing to go graciously? Does not all the evidence show that he is determined to stay in power? As for Russia, would it not be right to conclude that it has never really been interested in using its military might against Daesh, because first and foremost it wants to consolidate in every possible way the Assad regime, which, as the Minister said, has been responsible for some of the worst crimes committed in the past 25 or 30 years? Russia has a large moral responsibility for what is occurring on the ground.

[Mr Ellwood]

I partly agree with the hon. Gentleman. He makes very clear, as I have, the atrocities that Assad has inflicted. That is why we believe there is no long-term place for his involvement. What has happened is the recognition that there needs to be a very clear transition process. We should not just be talking about Assad. Assad and his cohorts—his family and so forth—have a firm grip on the top of the regime. It is simply not possible to remove the individual man and then assume that life can move on; it is far more complex than that, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman is aware.

We should also recognise—though this is no excuse for Russia’s behaviour—that Russia has had a long-term interest in the country since 1946, when it started to train the new Syrian army after Syria gained its independence. Syria backed the Soviets during the cold war. Assad’s father trained as a MiG pilot in Russia. There is a bond between the country that we cannot ignore, and that is why Russia is there, but we need it to use its influence in a positive way. We need Russia to recognise the damage Assad has done and the fact that the people of Syria deserve better than this. When I say “the people of Syria”, I mean all of Syria, not just one particular grouping or sectarian area.

Saudi Arabia

Debate between David Winnick and Tobias Ellwood

Tuesday 5th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

I pay tribute to the Chairman of the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, the work that he has done and his interest in this area. I am aware that the Committee visited Tehran recently and has first-hand knowledge of what is happening there, following the nuclear deal. That is crucial: what message are we sending to the people of Iran with this opportunity, after the cold war that they have been through, to participate more responsibly in the region? We want to send a clear and positive message to the people of Iran, which is why it is so important to de-escalate the current tensions between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Is it not clear that the Saudi authorities will continue with executions, including beheadings, stonings and even crucifixions, with the British Government saying, in effect, “Naughty, naughty” and continuing to be one of the main suppliers of arms? The record between this country and Saudi Arabia is one that should bring shame to Parliament.

[Mr Ellwood]

I think I have answered that question very clearly. We do not differentiate in respect of our arms sales; they very much go hand in hand, and we do exert influence behind the scenes, not just in Saudi Arabia, but in other countries. I am sorry that things are not as in the public domain as the hon. Gentleman would like.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Winnick and Tobias Ellwood

Tuesday 2nd December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

I pay tribute to the work done by my right hon. Friend when he covered this portfolio. He will be aware from his visit to the region of the start of a programme to build watchtowers, and the MOD is very much involved in that to prevent ISIL from running across the border and taking hostages. More funds are being provided for that successful programme, and I will be visiting Lebanon soon.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

For nearly half a century, on and off, I have heard Ministers say that they are committed on behalf of the British Government to justice for Palestinians, yet the situation has deteriorated for Palestinians over that time—it is has certainly not improved in any way. Would recognising a Palestinian state not show a genuine commitment on behalf of the United Kingdom that we want justice for Palestinians, as well as ensuring that the state of Israel is secure?

Palestine and Israel

Debate between David Winnick and Tobias Ellwood

Monday 13th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

I believe the nudge we saw was in the announcements made in the Cairo conference and the recognition of the huge amount of money that is now pouring in. I was very moved by a speech given by Ban Ki-moon at the UN General Assembly when he said, “Is this what we do? Is this who we are? We reconstruct; it’s damaged. We reconstruct; it’s damaged. Is this the cycle that we now endure?” What was clear in Cairo is that that is unacceptable. There needs to be commitment to rebuilding, and the parties need to come back to the table to discuss and work towards that two-state solution. That is what is on the agenda at the moment, and that is what we are focusing on.

[Mr Winnick]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Ellwood]

I will give way a little later, but first I want to make progress and address some of the specific points raised by hon. Members. I apologise because limited time means that I cannot address every contribution, but I will write to hon. Members if I am not able to cover their views.

The hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris), who moved the motion, placed in context Britain’s historical role in the region. Let me clarify, however, that the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank have not said that they recommend statehood, but that the essential institutions are there. One of the most powerful speeches made today was by my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Sir Richard Ottaway). It takes some courage to speak in the manner he did, and the House is all the wiser for his contribution.

My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind) spoke about what practical benefit voting for the motion will have. After all, we can play this card only once—once it is done, we cannot repeat it, so the timing of the motion is critical. The hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) spoke about the important role of John Kerry, and the House should pay tribute to the hard work and dedication he has pursued in trying to bring parties to the table. We went a long way back in April, and it is important that we pick up where we were at that point. The same point was made by the hon. Member for Batley and Spen (Mike Wood).

My right hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Melton (Sir Alan Duncan) described this as the most vexed and sensitive issue. That is true, and I play tribute to his work as DFID Minister in considering how oil and gas reserves in the Gazan territory can be harnessed. I found it ironic that all the countries at the Cairo conference were contributing substantial funds, yet on Gaza territory and off the shore of Gaza there is mineral wealth that could be harnessed. That is one of the things that must be placed on the agenda and it will be brought up with my Israeli counterparts.

My hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr Clappison) was the first to speak of the role of Hamas and the challenge of governance in Gaza. That is the elephant in the room, which needs to be addressed. The hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr Love) asked how long we will have to wait for a solution. My right hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Sir Hugh Robertson) rightly paid tribute to the hard work of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and of those who work in posts around the world. They do us a grand service and the whole House pays tribute to their work. The hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) paid a moving tribute to his father. I think the whole House joins him in that.