Oral Answers to Questions

David Ward Excerpts

Tuesday 19th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

That is a brilliant use of a question.

[Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD)]

Some continue to say that our troops have lost their lives in Afghanistan in vain, and that they should come home today. What, in the Secretary of State’s view, would be the situation regarding the rights of women and minorities if that were to happen?

[Mr Hague]

If we were to pull our troops out of combat prematurely and cease many of the other efforts we are making in Afghanistan, the position would be much more difficult, because through this period, when our and other forces are present, and when we are working closely with the Afghan Government, the prospects for women’s rights are improving. I am sure the timetable we have set is right—our troops will cease to be in combat after the end of 2014—but I hope the concepts of women’s rights are becoming more entrenched in Afghan society and politics all the time.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Ward Excerpts

Tuesday 17th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I would like to make some progress down the Order Paper, so we need shorter answers. The word is “shorter”—[Interruption.] I have explained it; shorter answers are required. The Minister must practise giving them.

[Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD)]

Does the Minister not accept that what he is proposing does not work? Will he support me and others at peaceful demonstrations at events involving Israeli Olympians to highlight the plight of the Palestinians and to bring to public awareness the apartheid regime in Israel?

[Alistair Burt]

I understand any colleague’s desire to take part in free and peaceful process in this country, but the hon. Gentleman raises an issue that he knows is deeply contested by Israeli authorities as regards how they conduct their affairs. It is a further measure of why it is important to work on both sides to get an agreement to this long-standing dispute.

Oral Answers to Questions

David Ward Excerpts

Tuesday 9th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

The responsibility for the direction of the World Service will remain exactly as it is now. What I agreed with the BBC Trust and the director-general of the BBC is that the key parts of the governance arrangements previously agreed in 2006 will be replicated in a new agreement, so the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, with the BBC, will set the objectives and priorities and, as I mentioned earlier, the Foreign Secretary will retain a veto over the opening and closing of services. So those arrangements stay the same as now.

[Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD)]

3. What recent discussions he has had on the blockade of Gaza.

[The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr William Hague)]

I discussed Gaza with the Israeli Prime Minister, Foreign Minister and Defence Minister during my visit there last week. I stressed that economic revitalisation will best safeguard Israel’s security. Gaza’s dependence on aid will continue until there is progress on exports and a better framework is developed for enabling imports of reconstruction materials for UN-led projects.

[Mr Ward]

Does the Foreign Secretary agree that the blockade not only represents an act of inhumanity, but is against the long-term security of Israel and is therefore against its national interest?

[Mr Hague]

Yes, I do agree with my hon. Friend. I have said before in the House that I think the blockade of Gaza is unsustainable and unacceptable. The tunnel economy that has arisen in Gaza often serves the interests of Hamas, rather than the interests of anyone else, so it is important for Israel to continue to allow an improvement in the flow of goods into Gaza and, as I said, to begin to allow reconstruction materials in so that there can be a real improvement in conditions on the ground in Gaza. That will help the security of the whole region.

Reconstructing Gaza

David Ward Excerpts

Monday 8th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Dr Huppert]

That is a fascinating question. I thank the hon. Lady for raising it, and in a moment I shall refer to what I have heard about the situation.

I am delighted about the schools, but we should be cautious. Approvals have been given in the past and then withdrawn, and allowing such basic building materials in should be a standard right, not a long drawn-out victory, but I thank the embassy for its information and urge the Minister to monitor carefully the progress on those projects, and to make the strongest protests possible if the flow of materials for those projects is curtailed. I hope he will agree to that.

On the question the hon. Lady asked, the argument used by Israel for not allowing construction materials in for these and other projects is one of security. The argument is that such materials—and there is a relatively long banned list, although it is better than it used to be—could be used by Hamas for military purposes. That argument makes sense superficially, and Israel does of course have a legitimate reason for wanting to control materials that could be used to make rockets, but it falls apart on closer examination.

It is well known that there are hundreds of tunnels under the border with Egypt which are used for smuggling. At the peak of the blockade, there were 1,200, including some large enough to drive a car through. We went into one—not the whole way, I hasten to add—and they are impressively constructed. At its peak, we were told, the value of the tunnel economy was between $500 million and $700 million a year, although the relaxation of the blockade on food and similar consumer goods has reduced activity significantly. The taxes that Hamas levies on imports through the tunnels provide a significant income to that organisation, helping to fund its activities and to buy up land and businesses throughout Gaza. However, those tunnels provide a regular supply of building materials, and we saw trucks being loaded with large amounts of cement and steel bars, along with signs throughout Gaza of construction works.

We found it ironic and deeply concerning that Hamas and related private individuals can have all the materials they need to build anything, from apartment blocks to bunkers, while the only effective constraints appear to be on the UN, non-governmental organisations and legitimate businessmen. That is surely counter-productive to Israel’s interests. It also serves to weaken UNRWA, which risks losing support through its inability to build while others are able to, because it is of course not prepared to use illegal materials. Given the flow of materials through the tunnels, Hamas can quite easily obtain any military equipment it requires, without having to try to acquire goods via the Israeli border.

Egypt plays an important role in the area. Indeed, we entered Gaza through Egypt. The press rarely highlights the fact that Egypt maintains a blockade on people movement in Gaza, just as Israel does, largely out of fear of the spread of Hamas ideology. However, Egypt could easily close down the tunnels if there was a desire to do so centrally, and if local military and police commanders were prepared to act—although that might go against their financial interests.

[Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD)]

Was my hon. Friend as amused as I was by the secret, hidden tunnels from which one could wave at the Egyptian border guards who were apparently unaware of their existence?

[Dr Huppert]

I thank my hon. Friend for intervening. It was a great pleasure to have him on the trip as well, and yes, it is absolutely absurd to imagine that Egypt does not know about the tunnels, when one can drive along and see large tents. One has to speculate on how materials suddenly, magically appear out of them. Egypt could find those tunnels on the other side of the border as well, and the trucks that go backwards and forwards for supplies could surely be found, too. There is a considerable Egyptian presence of tourist police and other organisations, as anyone who has been there will know.

Egypt is concerned about Hamas ideology, and it was fascinating to discover how broad the Hamas support base is, along with the spectrum that it covers, from reformers to hard-liners. It was also interesting to see how some of the more extremist Islamic groups there consider Hamas to be far too moderate. Those groups have been involved in many recent attacks on Israel, and Hamas has where possible put them down brutally. The feeling is often reciprocated.

While I am on the subject of tunnels and imports of materials, let me mention the lack of exports and the effect that that has on the economy. Exports have been barred since June 2007, with minimal exceptions: there have been a few shipments of strawberries and carnations. This does not make for a serious export market or a way of earning income for a country. I was fascinated to find that some entrepreneurial Gazans use the internet to do paid work, but that is very much in its infancy and cannot be a substitute for a proper export economy. I note in passing that one of our party inadvertently left a medical device behind in Gaza, and we are still struggling to find a way to get it back again. Without exports, there is no hope of the Gazan economy starting to re-function. The collapse of the economy has led to 40% unemployment rates, and 60% youth unemployment. These are not good conditions for a transition to a more peaceful solution.

There are problems with the provision of fresh water and with sanitation, and we heard about the desperate struggle to undertake rebuilding projects of those kinds as well. On physical construction, we need to think ahead. When the next Operation Cast Lead happens—we all hope that it will not happen—what steps will the Minister be taking to ensure that any future assaults by Israel would not blow up the provisions that we in the international community paid to have built? We need to ensure that we are improving Gaza, not stuck in a cycle.

Reconstruction is not just about the economy or infrastructure; mental reconstruction is also an issue. We met a fascinating gentleman called Iyad Saraj from the Gaza community mental health programme, as well as people from other non-governmental organisations that operate there, who made it clear how much psychological harm is being done to Gazan residents, especially children. As well as the traumatic events of Operation Cast Lead and other Israeli assaults, there is a sense of imprisonment in what the Prime Minister has called a “prison camp”. There are 800,000 under-18s in a population of 1.5 million, and more than half of them have never left Gaza.

Serious construction is needed in leadership. Time and again, we heard of the desperate shortage of leadership on all sides. The ongoing feud between Hamas and Fatah exemplifies the suggestions that they are each more interested in their own interests. There is a long history between the factions, and an urgent need for them to overcome their differences. Talks facilitated by Egypt have been ongoing for two years, but are still unresolved. At the intended signing of the deal recently, there were five remaining differences, which have now been reduced to one—security. However, the talks on this issue that were supposed to start on 20 October fell apart almost immediately, and it is now urgent for these two factions to unite if they are to be able to represent the Palestinian people.

We were told on several occasions that some exciting visitors from Britain had come to visit. Gerry Adams went to Gaza to give advice to Hamas. Of course, he is in a unique position to do so, with the benefit of detailed experience of armed uprising. In his comments, as reported to us, he said that there is a time to stop fighting, and that in Northern Ireland they had waited too long, increasing the death count for no benefit; and he argued that Hamas had gone beyond that point. I hope that he is heeded. Hamas has also been in talks with the African National Congress and with bodies around the world. It is not clear, however, that there is a Palestinian leader who can be Gerry Adams, Nelson Mandela, or anyone even close; it seems that there is no one who can take the dramatic steps required for peace to be serious. Hamas will not take steps to amend its founding, and outdated, charter. There is no one who will release Gilad Shalit, who has been held by Hamas for more than four years.

However, there is leadership in other places. I would highlight the leadership in human rights provided by Jaber Wishah of the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights. He was jailed by Israel for his part in fighting against the Israelis, and he spent many years in jail, but while he was there he decided to renounce violence, and he now dedicates himself to fighting fearlessly for human rights throughout Gaza, courageously reporting infringements by Palestinian and Israeli alike against people from any background. It was a privilege to meet him; we need more people like him in Gaza and elsewhere.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alistair Burt]

So as not to flannel my hon. Friend, I should give a better response when I have spoken to colleagues in DFID. I know that the problem that he raises is a serious one, and it is also caught with the problem of construction materials, which are vital to do the work that is necessary for the sewerage system and the like.

[Mr Ward]

We were disturbed by the appalling situation —which we could smell as we drove along the beach—of sewage going into the sea. The terrible consequence is that the sewage is finding its way back into the land through the water table, which is serious for agricultural development as well.

[Alistair Burt]

My hon. Friend describes an unbearable situation. I know that colleagues are on to it, so rather than speak in generalities I will find some detail. Indeed, if he submits a written question, I can supply an answer, and that will disseminate the information more widely.

On the diplomatic side, we are working closely with the UN, the office of the Quartet representative— Mr Blair—and the European Union to co-ordinate the international community’s demand for further progress. Mr Blair has played a very important role on Gaza, and was helpful in the period immediately following the flotilla incident. He did a great deal of work—and continues to do so—with the Government to deal with the authorities there. We are also working with the European Union to co-ordinate the international community’s demand for further progress. Although we welcome the steps that Israel has taken so far, we need to see further progress. In particular, we want to see faster approvals for key UN reconstruction projects. The international community is listening closely to UNRWA’s feedback. We urge Israel to work with UNRWA to expedite its reconstruction plans, particularly for schools. We want Israel also to show greater flexibility on the movement of people and exports, in order to increase employment, reduce aid dependency and allow the full movement of humanitarian workers.

There is a final point to make this evening. Sometimes I worry that a given situation remains unresolved because, in reality, it suits all parties, rather than those most affected, to leave it be. For Israel, Gaza is a heavy security risk—a dagger potentially pointing at its heart, through Hamas. It is a place of missed opportunities, following—Israel believes—the generosity of its withdrawal. For Hamas, Gaza is a counter to Fatah—an element in its war with Fatah, as much as in its role of resistance to Israel. For Egypt, Gaza is a conundrum too—part of the need to resolve the Palestinian situation, but where, in authority, it finds a political entity to which it is opposed, and in whose success it has no more vested interest than Israel. In the middle are the people—the children; those whose future could and should be so much better; those who, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge said, are crying out for leadership, to take them out of this situation, and for a future.

The only path is that Gaza will be part of the ultimate settlement in the middle east. That is why we and other parties are urging those involved in the direct negotiations to keep at it. We are pressing both sides to stay with the talks, to overcome the difficulties on settlements. That is why the Foreign Secretary pressed the point in relation to Israel, and why all friends of both Israel and Palestine should keep the parties at it. Ultimately, Gaza’s future salvation lies in a comprehensive peace settlement: the two-state solution, which is so important.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge said, time is running out. My story meets his in terms of those he spoke to. A couple of years ago, I was on Israel’s northern border and talking to some of the young people—they are very young—who guard those border posts. I asked them whether their children and grandchildren would be doing the same thing, and they thought that they probably would be. That is as sad and depressing as my hon. Friend’s story.

We have lived through momentous times during our period in Parliament. We have seen the unresolvable dealt with, and we have seen all sorts of things change during the past 20 or 30 years. The most intractable political problems have been solved, and it is always possible that that can happen in the middle east. The time is now.

I hope to visit Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories early next year. I have been to the west bank and Israel, and I hope to have the opportunity to go to Gaza. I will take a message from this House that we are all determined to redouble our efforts to drive the peace process forward, and we look to all those in the region and beyond to join us for the sake of all those in Gaza we have spoken about tonight.

Question put and agreed to.

Gaza

David Ward Excerpts

Tuesday 15th June 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD)]

The firing of rockets from Gaza into the south of Israel presents a menacing and deadly threat. It is completely wrong and it needs to stop because it is taking innocent lives. It is wrong because it provides the justification for Israel’s retaliation, although not for its disproportionate response, which is merciless at times.

The question that I am constantly asked in Bradford East is why the state of Israel is allowed to get away with this. People simply cannot comprehend why international action is not taken. The answer, I have to conclude, is that Israel can get away with it and regularly does. Yes, Hamas is proscribed, but why is the state of Israel not proscribed? Everyone says that a peaceful solution is necessary, but why on earth should the state of Israel agree to a peaceful solution when brutal force has achieved so much for it over such a long period? In my view, the two-state solution is almost an impossible dream. The situation has gone too far. I hope that that is not the case, but I fear that it is.

Why should we take a lead? We should do so because the British are up to our necks in responsibility for the situation in the Palestine region. From 1917 onwards, we gave away something that was not ours; we turned a blind eye to the ethnic cleansing that took place after the second world war; and now we are participating in the international acceptance of an apartheid state. People say that that would not be allowed anywhere else. In fact, it was not allowed anywhere else—certainly not in South Africa.

Unless things change, they stay the same. We must take a lead with our European partners, as has been said. We must go back to Obama, who started by making a very positive speech in Cairo. However, we must also consider boycotts, divestment and sanctions, because those were the only things that carried any weight in South Africa. Those policies must extend not only to weapons but to sport and academic boycotts as well. The United Nations has made a score or more resolutions. It is not resolutions we need; it is resolve—

[Jim Sheridan (in the Chair)]

Order. I apologise, but my earlier plea for brevity failed. I call Ivan Lewis.

UK Policy on the Middle East

David Ward Excerpts

Monday 14th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Many congratulations to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, on your elevation to your current position, some 30 years after we first met in a Committee Room elsewhere in this noble House.

The first, fundamental duty of any Government is to safeguard their citizens and borders, and to look after their people at home and abroad. As we come up to the 70th anniversary of the battle of Britain, we may ask, who would have denied our nation the right and duty to safeguard ourselves against the Nazis? Who would condemn Britain’s historical roles, both in the middle east and blockading the African coast to enforce the abolition of slavery back in the 19th century?

Many of our noted justifications for invading sovereign countries have been based on safeguarding our safety and security. Our reason for invading Iraq was that weapons of mass destruction could be implemented on our sovereign soil within 45 minutes. We are still searching for those weapons of mass destruction, but that was the reason that we were given. Our justification for occupying Afghanistan is, of course, to prevent al-Qaeda and other forces from setting up camps, planting bombs and damaging British sovereign territory. We must say to the Government of the day that as we win that fight, we must ensure that al-Qaeda and other such dark forces do not set themselves up in other countries, such as Yemen. We must remember that that is a big danger that we face.

Israel has fought a number of wars over the years since it was set up in 1948. Its recent experience of rockets and bombings, including suicide bombings, has been traumatic for all residents. The people of Israel have witnessed frequent suicide bombings, and suffered as a result of them. When the Israeli Government set up the wall, the incidence of suicide bombings dramatically reduced. If one were an Israeli citizen, one would say that the Israeli Government had done a wondrous thing. However, if one were a Palestinian, one would say, “You have done terrible things to us.”

Equally, what is Israel’s justification of the blockade? It is quite clear that since the blockade was implemented, the incidence of bombings and rockets coming into Israel has reduced, although such incidents have not ceased. The reality is that given the state of war between Israel and Hamas, Israel has the absolute right to enforce the position that rockets, bombs, missiles and ammunition must not enter Palestine or any area that can then attack the state of Israel.

We are challenged on the position of humanitarian aid, yet the state of Israel allows some 15,000 tonnes per week of humanitarian aid to enter Gaza. However, there is the role of Hamas: it holds up the aid. It uses it as an incentive to control the people of Palestine, and as a means of repression. Until it ceases its repression, the people of Palestine will not see the benefit of having a properly, democratically elected Government who truly represent them.

As has been said in many speeches today, Hamas says in its founding statement that it wants to destroy the state of Israel and wipe it off the face of the planet. It is very difficult to negotiate with people whose fundamental aim is to destroy one’s Government and one’s very being.

We must challenge the position taken on the flotilla and ask what its purpose was. Was it to deliver humanitarian aid? Absolutely; most of the people on those ships wanted to make sure that the citizens of Palestine and Gaza received humanitarian aid. However, behind it was IHH, an organisation with fundamental links to Hamas and al-Qaeda. The reality is that it sponsors terrorism, and it wanted to breach the blockade so that subsequently, once the blockade was removed, guns, rockets and other ammunition could be brought in, so that bombs could rain once again on Israel. It is understandable that the Israeli defence forces sought to prevent that from happening. On five of the six ships, they did so in a perfectly reasonable way, and people went about their business properly.

Let us look at what happened on 31 May, particularly on the Mavi Marmara. Many of the individuals concerned appeared to wish to be martyrs to the great cause. They attacked Israeli soldiers—remember, Israeli soldiers were injured during the boarding, and the reality is that they were attacked with weapons. There are two sides to the issue. Is it any surprise that Israel is concerned about inquiries? The Goldstone inquiry was almost certainly perceived in Israel as being biased against that state. When the inquiry came before the United Nations, the Labour Government’s representative refused even to vote on the issue.

[Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD)]

My understanding is that the Goldstone inquiry was independent, and that it was rejected by Israel because it did not like the findings.

[Bob Blackman]

The state of Israel rejected the inquiry as being biased and unfair. The reality is that the British Government refused even to vote on the issue; they did not vote for or against it. They did not even abstain. They just refused to vote. It is perceived as being not a fair and reasonable inquiry. On that basis, the state of Israel will most certainly say, “If we are to have another such inquiry, that can hardly be perceived to be fair or reasonable.” That is one reason why there is a difficulty with the whole approach.

There is, of course, a way forward on the situation. First, Hamas and Hezbollah must renounce violence, stop bombing Israel and recognise Israel’s right to exist. Israel must then lift the blockade, allow humanitarian aid in and ensure that a two-state solution can prosper and grow in an atmosphere of negotiation, peace and tranquillity. That will be hard on both sides, but that is what is required in the region to ensure that we move forward to two independent states able to exist side by side. Until all the nations that surround the state of Israel can accept Israel’s right to exist, and Iran retreats from its stated position of trying to destroy the state of Israel, potentially with nuclear weapons, the situation in the middle east will remain fragile.