European Union (Withdrawal) Act

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Monday 25th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Lidington]

I will give way to my right hon. and learned Friend, then to the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), and then I will make some progress.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lidington]

I will make some progress, but I will happily give way to my right hon. and learned Friend later.

[Kevin Brennan]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman; he is being extremely generous. I cannot see how any deal can proceed without a public vote at the end of the process, given the circumstances. On the question of today’s business, the Prime Minister said earlier that the Government were prepared to seek to provide time—I think those were her words—to discuss indicative options. Will he clarify what exactly she meant by that? When are the Government prepared to do it and for how long, and can he confirm that what the options are would be in the hands of the House?

[Mr Lidington]

I will gladly do so, but I ask colleagues to bear with me and permit me to complete page 1 of my speech and move to subsequent sections. Then I might be able to throw a bit more light on some of the questions being posed to me. I will give way to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central, but then I am going to make some progress.

Exiting the European Union

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Monday 11th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The House has considered these issues on a number of occasions and has passed various amendments. In particular, on 29 January, it passed the amendment tabled in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Altrincham and Sale West (Sir Graham Brady). That made specific requests. What the Government have done is to negotiate, and negotiate successfully, for changes that respond to the views that the House expressed that night. In many debates, and certainly outside this place, the sense I get is that people want decisions taken. We need, on behalf of our constituents, to decide on the future of this country, get on with delivering the referendum result and with the negotiations that then follow.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

This afternoon, the Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, the hon. Member for Worcester (Mr Walker), who came to make a statement in response to the urgent question of the Leader of the Opposition, repeatedly told the House, very clearly and in terms, that the Attorney General’s advice would be available before the start of play tomorrow. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has not repeated that; indeed, I think he has been careful not to repeat that tonight. Can we believe anything that is said from that Dispatch Box anymore?

[Mr Lidington]

I had hoped to be able to come to the House and give this statement a lot earlier this evening, but the reality is that the international negotiations went on longer than they had been expected to, which in my experience frequently happens with international—particularly European Union—negotiations. The Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr Walker), made his comments in good faith, as he always does, on the basis of the information available to us at the time. The Attorney General will be deeply conscious of his obligations to the House and will not want to delay.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 2nd March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I understand the strength of feeling that the hon. and learned Lady expressed about that particular case. However, my understanding is that Mrs Clennell has spent the majority of her life, including her married life, in Singapore, that several applications were refused between 2003 and 2008, and that since July 2014, she has had no legal basis for remaining in the United Kingdom. I stress that all applications for leave to remain are considered on their individual merits, in line with immigration rules, and subject to the various appeal mechanisms under United Kingdom law. Obviously the hon. and learned Lady is welcome to raise that particular case directly with the Home Secretary or the Immigration Minister, but the facts are as I have outlined.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Like many Members and thousands of people throughout the country, Sir Gerald Kaufman had an impact on my life, not least because I was given a copy of his book, “How to be a Minister”, for my 21st birthday, which probably had something to do with the fact that I became a Minister 25 years later. I had not forgotten the brilliant advice in Gerald’s book about how to deal with one’s ministerial box and civil servants, and about how to get things done, rather than just being a spectator in government. I am eternally grateful for his advice in that book.

Those who have paid tribute were right to mention Sir Gerald’s assiduousness towards his constituents. I entered the House in 2001, at the same time as my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), and I learned that business questions is the most important session of the week and that Members of Parliament value it. It is more important in some ways than Prime Minister’s questions because, apart from on the rare occasions when Mr Speaker has to curtail our efforts on a Thursday morning, it is an opportunity for every Member who is present to raise a matter. Sir Gerald often used business questions to raise a point, and it was almost always related to constituency casework: a Department that had failed to answer a letter; a Minister who had not come back with a quick reply; or even some other institution that had failed to treat correspondence from a Member of Parliament, acting on behalf of a constituent, with appropriate respect, or to furnish an appropriate reply.

Sir Gerald was absolutely right to do that because, whatever one’s view of electoral systems and so on, the strongest thing about our democracy is the representative link between Members of Parliament and their constituents, and the way in which Members of Parliament use this place and their title of “Member of Parliament” on behalf of their constituents to help them—not to enrich themselves or to burnish their reputation, but simply to help the weak against the strong. That is what democracy should be about and Gerald, I think more than anyone in the House, showed us all how that should be done. We would all do well to remember, whatever heights we reach in politics—whether just the Back Bench or ministerial office—why we are here. Sir Gerald was an exemplar of how to do that.

As has been said, Sir Gerald was also politically brave. Although my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall North (Mr Winnick) said that this was a controversial point to make at the end of his remarks, he was right to mention Gerald’s position on the state of Israel and its treatment of the Palestinian people. It was extremely brave of him to raise those issues in the House in the way that he did, and it is to his eternal credit that he did so.

People have mentioned Gerald’s dedication to his constituency. One morning about four years ago, I was having tea in the Tea Room, as I often do—I was probably with my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda—when Gerald came in, dressed as usual in colourful fashion. My hon. Friend and I had a brief debate about exactly what colour his suit was, and indeed whether a word existed in the English language to describe such a colour. Gerald had a spring in his step and looked delighted. We wondered whether he had been to a musical the night before—he was whistling as he entered the Tea Room. Then the penny dropped. The Boundary Commission proposals had just been published and Manchester, Gorton was not to be dissected in any way. Sir Gerald was delighted that he could say, “Yes, I’ll be standing at the next election, and the one after.”

My hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda also mentioned Rupert Murdoch; as this is business questions, I think that Gerald would have wanted my next point to be raised. The Leader of the House will have read press reports about the speech that is being made today on the proposed takeover of Sky by 20th Century Fox. How will the Government inform the House of their intentions in relation to that announcement?

[Mr Lidington]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important issue about media ownership. He will know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport has to act in a quasi-judicial manner when making decisions about any proposed merger. It would therefore be wrong of her to express any kind of view in advance of a formal notification. If formal notification is made, she will make whatever decisions fall to her by law.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 23rd February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

One would have to look at the variations in council tax levels and in central Government grants to local authorities in different parts of the kingdom. The point about devolution is that it gives Scottish authorities a choice on how to raise money. The Scottish Government have chosen to impose additional taxes centrally on constituents right across Scotland, making people in Scotland the most highly taxed anywhere in the United Kingdom.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May we have a debate on the case of Juhel Miah, the Welsh maths teacher who was removed from a plane, in front of his pupils, on his way to the United States? As a former teacher, I find that absolutely shocking. Is there not a contrast between the way in which we are rolling out the red carpet for President Trump, whatever our views on that, and his treating our school teachers like criminals?

[Mr Lidington]

It is perfectly fair for the hon. Gentleman to raise that case, which is disturbing because it is contrary to the declared policy of the United States Government on British citizens. My understanding is that the decision was taken at a more local level in that particular case, but I will draw his concern to the Foreign Secretary’s attention.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 2nd February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend is moving on from the sovereignty of Parliament to the sovereignty of Christchurch. A number of us in the House are very aware that there are often different and competing views—shall I put it that way?—among different local authorities in the localities we represent about the possible shape of future local government reform. As I can see from your reaction, Mr Speaker, you and I are both extremely familiar with this dilemma. As my hon. Friend knows, his view and the views of other colleagues representing Dorset constituencies will be attended to very closely by the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, and I urge him to continue to ensure that the views of his constituents are forthrightly represented in that quarter.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May we have a debate about our so-called national airline, British Airways? The manner in which it is treating its workforce, particularly the mixed fleet cabin crew, is a disgrace. They are mainly women and they are low-paid, yet the airline is refusing to settle on the basis of a reasonable offer to them. Would not a debate enable us to expose how our so-called national airline treats its workforce?

[Mr Lidington]

Although that is obviously a matter for the company, trade unions and employees concerned, the Government hope that all employers take seriously their responsibilities to ensure that their workforce is fairly rewarded. I cannot offer the hon. Gentleman a debate in Government time, but this might be a subject on which to seek an Adjournment debate.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 26th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I recognise and sympathise with the underlying point that the hon. Gentleman is making. That will turn on decisions made not just by the UK Government, but by the Welsh Government and Welsh Assembly, local authorities and individual schools about their priorities. I would very much hope that ways can continue to be found to maintain those standards of excellence and opportunity for people wanting to pursue music in Gwent.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House give us an absolute guarantee that the unelected House of Lords will not have more time to debate the Brexit article 50 Bill than the elected House of Commons?

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 12th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

My understanding is that the Post Office proposes that the Crown post offices that it closes will instead become sub-post offices, or sub-post offices on a franchise basis will continue in those communities. It is the provision of the service that seems to me to be important. It is right that there should be full consultation with local communities about any of these proposed closures, but it is also a reality that more and more of our constituents are using online banking services, and that is bound to have an impact on the economic viability of branch networks.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Can we have an urgent statement from the energy Minister on the forthcoming industrial action in the nuclear industry, which is a direct result of the Government’s betrayal of workers in that industry, despite the amendments that the Opposition put down to the Enterprise Bill and despite the promises that were made at the time of privatisation?

[Mr Lidington]

I cannot offer the promise of a statement, but this may be something the hon. Gentleman wishes to seek an Adjournment debate on.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 15th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

As the hon. Lady knows, those men are being held under the Indian judicial system. Although we cannot give orders to another country about how it operates its judicial system, the case of the hon. Lady’s constituent and the other men being detained has frequently been raised by Ministers when speaking to their Indian counterparts, and continues to be raised by our high commissioner in New Delhi. We will continue to make such representations.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Instead of the traditional Adjournment debate, perhaps Tuesday’s debate could be on the substantive motion, in tribute to our fallen colleague Jo Cox, that this House believes we have more in common than that which divides us. If we did have such a debate, that would enable us to highlight wonderful gestures like that of the bookmaker William Hill, which has said this morning that it will donate all the money staked on the Friends of Jo Cox single becoming Christmas No. 1 and in addition make a £5,000 donation to the Jo Cox Foundation. Does the Leader of the House agree it would be a wonderful gesture if all the other major bookmakers matched William Hill’s generosity?

[Mr Lidington]

I pay tribute to the action of William Hill. It has set a precedent that others might indeed wish to look at closely.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 8th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

It is welcome news that Tata Steel and the unions have come to an agreement to keep Port Talbot open, and that the Labour Government in Wales are providing support for training. Does the Leader of the House agree that we ought to have a debate about ensuring that that survival goes forward for our steel industry, and in particular that the workers, in agreeing this deal, do not lose out on their pensions?

[Mr Lidington]

There are some legal requirements that govern pension schemes, which give a measure of protection, and accrued rights under the old pension scheme—I understand that it is proposed to close the scheme—remain preserved. I share the hon. Gentleman’s welcome for the agreement that was reached yesterday and pay tribute to those in all political parties in Wales who have fought so hard for such an agreement to be struck. It is good to see that a way appears to have been found to enable steel production to continue at Port Talbot. I will ask Ministers to address the particular point he raises, but we have Business questions next Tuesday and he may want to try his luck at raising this question again then.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 15th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I am afraid that what goes on in Committees is certainly not a matter for me. On the broader point, there was a statement on this and related matters quite recently by the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood). The best thing I can do is point the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) towards Foreign and Commonwealth Office questions, which will be in the week after we get back.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

If the Leader of the House will not listen to the will of the current House, which is against the reduction from 650 Members to 600, may I suggest a debate on reducing the numbers in the Lords? Could we take a lesson from sport and introduce a squad system, whereby each party could nominate active peers, including Cross Benchers, thereby reducing the numbers voting in the Lords and ending the ridiculous situation where there are far more peers than elected MPs?

[Mr Lidington]

My regret is that when this House had the opportunity to vote for thoroughgoing House of Lords reform, this House chose not to do so.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Kevin Brennan

Thursday 8th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I will certainly draw that matter to the attention of DWP Ministers, because clearly, whatever the decision will be, the sooner that people know the outcome, the better.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House and I have something in common, in that we were both once contestants on “University Challenge”. If we were able to have a debate on enhancing democracy, how would he answer this starter for 10? Under what school of political logic do we enhance democracy by cutting the number of elected politicians and increasing the number of unelected peers?

[Mr Lidington]

As I said to the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn), I wish that there had been consensus on reform of the House of Lords in the previous Parliament, but that consensus was absent, and we are where we are. I doubt that opinion across the House of Commons has changed all that much since that abortive attempt at reform a few years ago.

The answer to the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) is that he really cannot evade the central point that we are now operating on electoral registers based on a census taken in 2001. They are very out of date, given the population changes that have taken place since then. It is also plainly wrong to continue with a situation in which constituency electorates are of such disparate sizes. That in practice means that there is gross inequality between the weight of votes of individual electors in different seats.