Cross-border Travel (Spain/Gibraltar)

Debate between David Lidington and Denis MacShane

Monday 15th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The UK Government, from the Prime Minister down, could not have been clearer to our friends and partners in Spain that although we want a good bilateral relationship with them, we will not, and we shall never, agree to any transfer of sovereignty over Gibraltar unless that were the wish of the people of Gibraltar, nor would we enter into any process of sovereignty talks and negotiations unless the people of Gibraltar were content with that.

[Mr MacShane]

I wish the Minister well. I negotiated the trilateral agreement, and for a few years we had a bit of peace and quiet. I am sorry that it is all going wrong for him; Gibraltar is a nightmare for anybody in his job. However, the House does not help the Minister or the people of Gibraltar with patronising remarks about civilised behaviour and the rest of it. We need to cool things down. The queues are unacceptable, but jaw-jaw is better than queue-queue. I wish the Minister well as he tries to get this back under control.

[Mr Lidington]

I am always willing to welcome good wishes, particularly in my job, even if they are from the right hon. Gentleman. However, I would disagree with him profoundly in one respect: when he described Gibraltar as a “nightmare”. I do not think Gibraltar is a nightmare; I think Gibraltar is a thriving and now pretty prosperous community, with an entrepreneurial people who want good relations with their neighbours across the border in Spain, but who also want their democratic rights respected and their wish to remain British respected too.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Lidington and Denis MacShane

Tuesday 29th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

We continue to urge on the leaders of all political parties in Bosnia and Herzegovina the need for urgent progress to establish that state-level Government. I talked about that to EU Special Representative Peter Sørensen and the international community’s representative, Valentin Inzko, a week ago. Every actor with influence on the Balkans needs to work towards greater stability in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Yesterday two German soldiers were shot and wounded by Serb thugs in northern Kosovo. It is a huge problem. Will the Minister and the Foreign Secretary appeal to President Tadic, whether it is in Bosnia and Herzegovina or in Kosovo, to assume responsibility? The proposed talks next week about Serbia joining the EU cannot get under way so long as there is no democratic law-and-order authority in Kosovo—or, indeed, in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

[Mr Lidington]

I deplore the incident that the right hon. Gentleman described, and I discussed it with my German counterpart yesterday. The Commission’s report on EU enlargement clearly sets out the fact that Serbia needs to address its relations with its neighbours if it is to make progress towards EU accession, as it hopes to do.

Topical Questions

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Lidington and Denis MacShane

Tuesday 25th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I have to tell my hon. and learned Friend that it made very little difference indeed in practice, in part because the EU itself was divided. When we had to pursue a military campaign and the need arose for quick political decisions, it was individual member states’ Foreign Ministries, Defence staffs and intelligence agencies who made the decisions and took things forward. The EU has an important role to play in helping to rebuild Libya and integrate it into the wider community of nations.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Will the Minister confirm that on every working morning at the UN and all its agencies there is a co-ordination meeting of all the EU ambassadors, including the UK’s, and that when they decide to speak with one voice they have far more impact than a cacophony of 27 different voices? We have to stop appeasing the “Mad-Eye Moodys” who hate anything to do with the European Union; and when we can speak as one, we should speak as one.

[Mr Speaker]

Minister?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Lidington and Denis MacShane

Tuesday 19th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The Croatian Government have met the conditions laid down by the Commission and supported by member states, but the European Council also agreed when it concluded accession negotiations that there should be a further stage of pre-accession monitoring to ensure that the Croatian authorities’ commitments to reform are still delivered in practice.

We look forward to the Commission’s report on Serbia’s progress on economic and political reform, which is due in December. Although the arrest of Mr Mladic was an important step forward, it does not remove the need for Serbia to do everything else with regard to internal reform and addressing regional co-operation to meet the terms of EU accession.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

On that very point, while welcoming the EU-brokered talks between Serbia and Kosovo, does the Minister share my disappointment that immediately afterwards President Tadic called for the partition of Kosovo? Serbia is also meddling in Bosnia and Montenegro as if it still controlled Serb regions in those countries. Does he agree that Serbia has to be told that it must accept Kosovo’s right to nation statehood and recognise Kosovo, and that that is a sine qua non for British acceptance of Serbia going down the road to EU membership?

[Mr Lidington]

As far as the British Government are concerned, it is quite clear that the frontiers in the Balkans have been drawn and there is no going back on Kosovo’s independence. Regional co-operation must be addressed in the context of an accession process for Serbia and a full European perspective for Kosovo. We welcome the initial agreement reached through the dialogue and want that to progress further.

European Union Bill

Debate between David Lidington and Denis MacShane

Monday 11th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely correct about the views of the Electoral Commission, which I believe it expressed publicly in its response to the amendments passed in the other place. There could be some perverse, although unintended, I am sure, effects if the threshold amendments were upheld. In some circumstances, there would be an incentive for one side in the referendum campaign to urge abstention rather than support in an effort to keep turnout below the magic threshold of 40%. It could also mean some very peculiar outcomes. Obviously we are talking hypothetically, but if we stuck with the 40% threshold, a poll would be deemed invalid if there was a turnout of 39% in which 5% voted one way and 34% voted the other, whereas a poll with a turnout of 41%, with 21% voting one way and 20% voting the other—the 1% margin—

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

That is not 100%.

[Mr Lidington]

I assumed that I did not need to translate the figures for the right hon. Gentleman and I am sure that he understands my argument perfectly well. There could be a very small difference between the two sides in a referendum result, but it would be valid if the turnout was just above the 40% threshold, whereas a much bigger and more decisive outcome just below the 40% would be deemed to be of no account.

European Union (Amendment) Act 2008

Debate between David Lidington and Denis MacShane

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con)]

We have touched on whether or not the Minister thinks our membership of the EU is a good thing, but we should ask the people whether they believe we should be in Europe. That is a question which, I am sorry to say, he has not answered.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister did.

[Mr Lidington]

The Prime Minister made it clear in answer to questions last week that he believes it is in the United Kingdom’s interest to remain part of Europe. One of the things that my hon. Friend the Member for St Albans (Mrs Main) needs to say, in the hypothetical choice she advocates, is what the United Kingdom should leave the European Union in order to join. I will not stray beyond the confines of the motion this evening; I merely pose that question to my hon. Friend.

I shall give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh); then I will make progress and not give way for a while.

European Union Bill

Debate between David Lidington and Denis MacShane

Tuesday 1st February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

Might my hon. Friend possibly accept that on this occasion I really must bow to the Chair and sit down?

[Mr Lidington]

A number of the questions posed by the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) invited me to move from clause 15 to clauses 16 and 17. If you are willing to allow me to stray on to that territory, Mr Hoyle, I shall be able to reply to her questions now and perhaps speak more formally later when we deal with those clauses; otherwise I shall have to delay my responses to her.

The right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) made his points very forcefully. I agree with him that there is a disconnection between decisions made by national legislatures in just about every member state and decisions made in the European Parliament—or in Europe more generally—on behalf of those countries, and I think it important for us to consider how to remedy that democratic deficit. However, I do not want to be drawn into a detailed discussion about the treaty changes which would need to be debated and negotiated to produce the outcome that the right hon. Gentleman seeks, and which would have to command unanimous agreement among all member states and, indeed, the European Parliament itself.

Let me say two things about the European Parliament. First, it does an important job. Whatever view I, or any other Member present, may take on whether or not it should have particular powers, my contacts with MEPs of all parties have given me the impression that, for the most part, they take their duties of scrutinising and seeking to amend European legislation very seriously. As a Government and as a Parliament, we need to have regard to and engage consistently with MEPs if we are to pursue successfully the national objectives of the United Kingdom through the European Union.

Secondly, I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that there is an unhealthy democratic gap between the way in which the European Parliament operates and the— in my opinion—correct belief held by most national legislatures that they are more directly accountable to the voters in their respective countries than are MEPs. That is, perhaps, particularly true in the United Kingdom, where there is a significant difference in the method of election: while MEPs are elected through a regional party list system, we in the House of Commons are elected to single-Member constituencies. The right hon. Gentleman has sketched what has the makings of a fruitful debate in the months and years to come.

Let me now deal with the various detailed points made by, in particular, the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East. While I am tempted to deal at length on differences between the Sainte-Laguë and d’Hondt methods, that would probably reduce the number of Members attending the debate even further. I am happy to offer a seminar. [Interruption.] My hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) indicates that he does not wish to be drawn into a debate about the respective merits of Sainte-Laguë and d’Hondt.

[Mr MacShane]

Let us leave Sainte-Laguë and d’Hondt. Is the Minister in favour of the alternative vote? That is what the Committee and the nation want to know.

[Mr Lidington]

No.

The answer to the question asked by the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East is that the Electoral Commission decided to use the Sainte-Laguë method following various consultations that it had carried out. There is a debate about whether we should move to that method when it comes to deciding how to elect Members of the European Parliament, but that is a matter for a future occasion.