Pairing

Debate between David Lidington and Andrew Percy

Monday 23rd July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I feel that I must fess up. I am a pair breaker. I have done it once—by accident. I was told off by the Whips very quickly. The event that I was due to attend had been cancelled and I simply forgot, so honest mistakes do happen. But this whole incident proves two things: first, that this is a process issue that interests the Westminster bubble, but certainly does not interest my constituents; and secondly, that this system, which has existed for a very long time, generally works. I urge my right hon. Friend to be very careful in changing a system that, despite the odd breakdown here and there—most of which have been committed by the Opposition in recent times—generally works. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The very fact that we are talking about 66 pairs having been broken for one reason or another since the general election, out of a total of around 2,000 agreed pairs, tells its own story.

Infected Blood Inquiry

Debate between David Lidington and Andrew Percy

Monday 2nd July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I thank the hon. Lady for her support. She is right that there have been many allegations that there was not just an appalling degree of misjudgment and mistreatment of people, but then a subsequent cover-up. One of the specific terms of reference involves asking the inquiry to consider whether such concealment took place, who would have been responsible for it, and its extent, so that is very much something that Sir Brian and his team will look into. One problem with appointing co-determining assessors would be that that would almost inevitably slow down the speed at which the inquiry could progress, because we would need to find experts—there would be a question as to how many were required to cover the field—who were prepared to take off a year or two years, full time, to serve alongside the chair. That was one of the reasons that weighed heavily in Sir Brian’s mind when he made his proposals on the terms of reference.

On powers to summon people, yes, the 2005 Act gives an inquiry of this kind the power to compel the attendance of individuals.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

In accepting Sir Brian’s view about the work of expert groups, can we be assured that those expert groups and panels will be fully transparent and that everything will be publicly available to those with an interest?

[Mr Lidington]

Yes. In his letter to me, Sir Brian proposed that there should be expert groups covering a number of areas and expertise, and that those would range from clinical expertise, with that group itself needing to involve experts in haematology, hepatology and virology, and separate expert groups dealing with medical ethics, statistics, and the psycho-social impact of the infected blood scandal, to experts on public administration. It is certainly Sir Brian’s intention that the deliberative sessions of those expert groups should be undertaken in public, and that the core participants in the inquiry should be able both to propose to the chair names for appointment to those expert groups and to ask questions of the experts during their deliberative sessions as well as during formal evidence given by the expert groups to the inquiry in plenary session. Clearly, given the way that these inquiries normally operate, our expectation is that that intervention on behalf of survivors and other core participants would be via their legal representatives, and that again reinforces the reasons why the Government have agreed, exceptionally, to offer legal aid.

Commonwealth Day

Debate between David Lidington and Andrew Percy

Thursday 13th March 2014 Westminster Hall

[Mr Lidington]

I agree with the hon. Lady. We will not for one moment stop trying to persuade the Government of Sri Lanka that it is in their interests on two counts—its effect on how Sri Lanka is seen internationally and the need for genuine reconciliation between different communities in that country. At the end of the day, the Government of Sri Lanka are sovereign and they will take their decision. We hope that they will eventually conclude that an independent inquiry of some kind is in the interests of Sri Lanka itself. That is why we are disappointed that they have not hitherto established an inquiry of their own. Had such an inquiry been set up in Sri Lanka, we would not need to call for one now at the UN Human Rights Council.

I should add that the Commonwealth ministerial action group has a key role to play in upholding the values to which all Commonwealth countries signed up when they agreed the charter. As CMAG meets for the first time since CHOGM here in London, we have a timely opportunity to restate our view that it is essential that CMAG lives up to the strengthened mandate that it received in Perth.

Our debate this afternoon is a reminder that democracy itself is a key Commonwealth value. The work that the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association does to support and extend democratic values across the Commonwealth should not be underestimated. The CPA rightly enjoys associate organisation status within the Commonwealth and is the one Commonwealth organisation that directly represents parliamentary democracy. The Government recognise the CPA’s importance, and we remain happy to discuss proposals to enhance further its work through such measures as a democracy forum. I welcome the remarks of my right hon. Friend the Member for Saffron Walden about the wish to see greater recognition of the CPA’s role in strengthening contact between elected local government bodies across the Commonwealth.

I also welcome my right hon. Friend’s creative and imaginative proposal for a Commonwealth youth parliamentary assembly of some kind. I look forward to seeing how that idea develops further within the CPA. I welcome the decision of the House—it was not welcomed in all quarters—to allow the United Kingdom Youth Parliament to sit in the Chamber. The idea that one day we could look at a Commonwealth youth parliament visiting different Parliaments in different Commonwealth member states and in different continents is very attractive indeed.

In addition to Commonwealth values, hon. Members have referred today to the potential to increase prosperity across the Commonwealth for all its members. The Department for International Development contributes directly to member states that are developing countries, and allocated about £2 billion of aid to those countries in 2013-14—that figure ignores regional programmes and therefore masks a higher total.

Local sporting events also drive economic growth, as previous Commonwealth games have shown. According to the organising committee of the New Delhi games, Manchester benefited to the tune of more than £2 billion in 2002, Melbourne by £1 billion in 2006 and Delhi itself by £2.5 billion. The United Kingdom exceeded its four-year Olympic legacy target, adding £11 billion to the economy through trade and investment in just over one year. The Glasgow games of 2014, which will draw in more than 6,500 athletes and officials in 17 sports, with a global audience of approximately 1.5 billion people, offer a great opportunity for the United Kingdom to provide leadership in enhancing Commonwealth prosperity.

To that end, UKTI is working with Scottish Enterprise, in partnership with the Commonwealth Business Council, on behalf of the Scottish and United Kingdom Governments together to deliver the Commonwealth games business conference on 22 and 23 July. That conference will explore opportunities to strengthen trade and investment between Commonwealth partners and seek new, innovative solutions to deliver sustainable economic growth.

After that conference, UKTI will also host the British Business House, to highlight the UK’s position as a centre of trade and investment. Businesses and key decision makers from the UK and across the Commonwealth will participate in a series of high level round-table and seminar sessions to explore new opportunities to increase trade and investment in the Commonwealth.

Those are just two examples of how the Commonwealth can harness the potential in its membership to increase prosperity. We should be increasing trade and investment with all our partners globally, including the Commonwealth and the EU. I welcome the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), especially in the knowledge of his long-standing, honourably held position on our EU membership, that it is not a matter of trading with either the EU or the Commonwealth but one of trading with both. Indeed, in the case of Cyprus and Malta, we have an overlap on our Venn diagram.

The free trade agreements that the EU has concluded, or is negotiating with Commonwealth countries, will enhance further the conditions for trade. We expect, for example, the EU-Canada comprehensive economic and trade agreement to benefit the United Kingdom’s economy and businesses by more than £1.3 billion every year.

[Andrew Percy]

I wanted to say this, but I got my timings wrong, because I had not realised that the debate was running until 4.30 pm. That was why I cut myself off after four minutes. In terms of our relationship with Canada and the CETA, we will have a special position once that agreement is implemented. Does the Minister not agree that we need a particular strategy that utilises our unique relationship with Canada to ensure that, when the CETA is in place, we are the country in Europe that benefits most from it? We need a UK Government strategy.

[Mr Lidington]

With my Minister for Europe hat on, I would caution my hon. Friend slightly, because France would think that it has a particular relationship with Quebec, but he makes a good point. Actually, that strikes a chord, because when I last discussed EU-Canada negotiations with Lord Livingston, our new Minister for Trade and Investment, he was focused on the need for the UK to build up a greater market share in Canada. Canada is one of those countries where we have not yet taken sufficient advantage of the commercial opportunities open to us. I shall make a point of drawing my hon. Friend’s comments to his attention.

[Mr Lidington]

When looking at any one bilateral free trade agreement, it is difficult to make an accurate judgment about what might have been had we not been members of the European Union: whether it would have been easier or more difficult. Actually, until the Doha round ran into the sand, the policy of successive British Governments was to focus less on bilateral trade negotiations than on multilateral trade negotiations, first through the general agreement on tariffs and trade and then through the World Trade Organisation. That would have been the best way in which to address this agenda. The failure of those global trade liberalisation talks has resulted in the European Union and individual countries around the world looking for opportunities for bilateral deals instead. My word of caution to my hon. Friend would be that when we come to look at how trade negotiations progress—this is particularly true of the negotiations with the United States—we see that the value of and the leverage provided by membership of a market of 500 million people is greater than that of a market of 60 million people.

In respect of Canada, I have no idea how things would have gone had the United Kingdom some time ago decided to try to negotiate a bilateral agreement. I just draw my hon. Friend’s attention to the fact that the European Free Trade Association-Canada free trade agreement, which preceded the EU one, leaves out a number of key sectors, such as financial services, that would be particularly important to this country. Sometimes that European Union leverage does enable us to get, in my judgment, further than we would be able to on our own. That is certainly true of the talks with the United States at the moment. However, as I have said, I do not think that this is an either/or situation. We should be looking to get the greatest advantage out of our membership of all the international organisations to which we are party.

My hon. Friends the Members for Romford and for Mole Valley both talked about airports, passport queues and visa arrangements. They will not be surprised if I start by saying that, as the House will know, those are primarily matters for the Home Office, rather than for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. It has been the consistent policy of successive British Governments to say that citizens from all Commonwealth countries should be treated, for immigration purposes, as third country nationals. It is also the case that the citizens of some Commonwealth countries, including at least one of the realms—Jamaica—require visas before they come into the United Kingdom; entry clearance on its own is not deemed sufficient. The position is more complicated than it is sometimes made out to be, but again I promise to draw to the attention of my colleagues in the Home Office the points that were made very strongly by my hon. Friends.

[Andrew Percy]

I thank the Minister for giving way; I do think that this issue is important. I understand the specific situation with Jamaica, but of course the Jamaican Government have stated very clearly that they wish to remove the monarchy from their constitution and become a republic, so perhaps at that point the situation will become a great deal simpler. This is something that we should, at least from the Government side, express as a desire and an aim, given that these are citizens coming to the country where their Head of State resides and we treat them as foreigners, which of course in law they are not.

[Mr Lidington]

I will draw my hon. Friend’s comments to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. She has the policy lead on these matters.

I would have been astonished had my hon. Friend the Member for Romford not seized the opportunity to speak about the British overseas territories. He is renowned as their foremost champion in the House of Commons. I accept and sympathise with his wish to see greater recognition for the overseas territories in Commonwealth affairs. It is worth noting in passing that of course Australia and New Zealand, too, administer island territories as dependencies that, as I understand it, are not full members of the Commonwealth in their own right.

The constitutional issue is that the Commonwealth has always operated on the basis that there is just one category of membership, which is full membership, and that is available only to sovereign states. That position was most recently reaffirmed by the Commonwealth Heads of Government in 2007. It would be perfectly possible to create some new status of associate member, but that would, of course, require the unanimous agreement of every member of the Commonwealth. I will ensure that the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon, who has responsibility for the Commonwealth, learns of the speech made by my hon. Friend the Member for Romford and of his wish for this country to take more of a lead in pressing for such a change. I will ask my right hon. Friend to write to my hon. Friend, to set out his response to those ideas in greater detail.

European Elections 2014

Debate between David Lidington and Andrew Percy

Tuesday 18th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The hon. Gentleman puts his finger on one of the key problems with shifting away from our practice of voting on a Thursday—namely, that to pick any day over the weekend from Friday to Sunday would inevitably begin to trespass on the religious practices of faith groups in various parts of the United Kingdom. We would need to look at how the timing of a polling day might have an impact on people from such groups, and not just in respect of the voting day because a large number of constituencies and local authorities still count votes the day following polling day, so that has to be taken into consideration, too.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I am reassured by what the Minister says. I can tell him that, whether it be held on a Sunday, a Thursday or any other day, the people of Brigg and Goole will be equally uninterested in the European parliamentary election. I agree with my right hon. Friend on what he says about maintaining our Thursday elections. Has he assessed how much the ridiculous situation of paying for security and the guarding of ballot boxes from Thursday to Sunday costs us? Plenty of other countries around the world, such as Canada, have results coming in for elections held on the same day, but the results from eastern Canada are known before the people in western Canada have finished voting. Why can we not just go back to counting on a Thursday and save the taxpayer some money?

[Mr Lidington]

That is an interesting view. I do not know whether the Cabinet Office has the figures for which my hon. Friend asks. I think that the agreement reached some years ago within the EU—that voting should take place over a number of days—was designed to accommodate both the fact that different countries had the habit of voting on different days of the week and the wish not to declare votes early in case the votes in one country affected how votes were cast in another country. I have to say that I rather agree with my hon. Friend, as the prospect of that happening is, in practice, pretty slim. I doubt whether he will be influenced in his campaigning by the outcome of elections in Greece or Malta. The arrangements we now have were incorporated into European law, and it is not likely to change in the foreseeable future.

European Union

Debate between David Lidington and Andrew Percy

Tuesday 13th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I actually think that it is a very good idea for officials, not only from the Foreign Office but from other Departments, to hear creative and constructive ideas, especially from Members of Parliament of all parties—and the all-party group on European reform includes members of the hon. Gentleman’s party, as well as members of mine—and from people outside Whitehall and government. The Foreign Office has a range of contacts with think-tanks and academics as well as with Members of Parliament, so that our policy making can be informed by creative ideas from outside. That seems to be a very sensible way of governing, and I am slightly shocked that the hon. Gentleman should appear to think that a closed cadre in Whitehall, insulated from of outside advice and influence, is the best way to proceed. If that is the thinking of the Labour party, it might explain the disastrous legacy that he and his colleagues bequeathed to this Government.

The German Chancellor’s spokesman said yesterday that Britain is one of Germany’s closest partners and one of her most important allies and friends; that we work very closely together on a number of different policy challenges, including within the context of the European Union; that what Britain and Germany share are key convictions on competitiveness and on what creates jobs, innovation and creativity in the economy; and that we will both continue to work to make the single market a joint success. President Sarkozy, with whom we have had one or two disagreements, said in an interview with Le Monde yesterday that he recalled our partnership in defence co-operation signed in November 2010 and our joint intervention in Libya, as well as our shared commitment to nuclear energy as part of a balanced overall energy policy. Our partnerships with France, Germany and all our European allies remain strong and dynamic.

We need not listen only to European leaders. The US Secretary of State was asked the other day whether the position that the Prime Minister took at the summit had caused her concern, given what the questioner termed “the historic bridge” that Britain had offered between Europe and the United States. Secretary Clinton replied in very clear terms:

“I have to say it does not. I think that the role that the UK has played in Europe will continue.”

I do not think that these fears of isolation, which for obvious reasons of vested interest the Opposition want to whip up, will turn out to have substance.

If the Opposition want a little more reassurance from someone whom they might trust a bit more than the German Chancellor’s official spokesman or the United States Secretary of State, I refer them to the comments of Lord Digby Jones. It is no good the shadow Foreign Secretary shaking his head. He was happy to serve in government alongside Lord Jones. In fact, the Labour members of that Government were happy to hail his recruitment as evidence that they were attracting a Government of all the talents and bringing in people from British business to strengthen their ranks—they certainly needed strengthening. Anyway, when asked whether Britain’s business interests would survive and flourish, Lord Jones said, “Definitely.” There is a clear view that our partnerships in Europe will continue and that the opportunities available for British business in Europe will continue to thrive.

[Andrew Percy]

Should we not try to regain ownership of this word “isolation”? Surely, it is not a bad thing to be isolated from something that is not in the country’s interest, that is bad for the United Kingdom and that the British public do not want to be a part of.

[Mr Lidington]

There was a time when Labour leaders were prepared to accept that sometimes there was a need to stand out on their own in defence of British interests. Tony Blair said, when he opposed the introduction of an EU-wide tax on savings, that if we are isolated and we are right, that is the correct position to be in, but as we know, the Leader of the Opposition told his party conference:

“I am not Tony Blair”.

We have yet another example of that inheritance now being disavowed by those who were happy to serve when the opportunity arose.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lidington]

The terms that one is able to extract in the context of such a negotiation will be more favourable if one can negotiate as part of a bloc of 500 million consumers. What the EU was able to offer South Korea collectively was access to a market of 500 million. The UK on its own would have been able to offer access to a market of 50 million to 60 million consumers. That is not an insignificant number, but it is a tenth of the size of the European Union as a whole. That difference in scale means that European countries have greater weight and leverage when they are able to get their act together and negotiate en bloc.

The third reason I believe it remains in our national interest to stay an active member of the European Union is that membership enhances our ability to influence events abroad. On issues where there is a genuine common European interest, where the national interests of the 27 member states converge, it makes sense for those member states to act together, pool our influence and speak with a united voice. One voice representing 500 million consumers is heard more loudly in Beijing, Delhi and Brasilia than 27 separate voices. However, it is equally the case that where EU member states do not agree, it is right and proper that, as sovereign nations with our own national interests, we speak and act independently. It is also right that foreign policy and security and defence policy should remain matters where unanimous agreement is required for a European position to exist.

[Andrew Percy]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend must forgive me, but I want to press on.

Collaboration over Libya has brought in many—although not all—European states, including Italy and Belgium. In recent months, the EU has exerted collective pressure on Libya and Syria, as well as on Côte d’Ivoire and Belarus. Different European countries have different contributions to make. Poland and other eastern partners can give us a unique perspective as we seek to support the democratic movements in the middle east and north Africa, and can also improve our insight with regard to our relations with countries such as Russia and Ukraine. Spain’s influence in Latin America will continue to shape Europe’s engagement there, and Portugal is now helping European interests on the UN Security Council. If we look at the EULEX mission alongside NATO in Kosovo, the EU civilian and military missions supporting NATO elsewhere in the Balkans or the Atalanta mission to tackle piracy off the coast of Somalia, we see operations of European civilian or military experts focusing on particular areas of expertise, often in tandem with NATO, the United Nations or national forces. Those are good examples of where European countries have been able to give themselves greater clout by being willing to act collectively.

The motion in the name of the right hon. Member for Belfast North says that the British people desire “a rebalancing of the relationship with our European neighbours”, and I agree with the hon. Member for North Antrim that there is too much centralised direction of many European policies.

The Government are committed under the coalition agreement to examining the balance of competences between Britain and the European Union, and as both the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister have said, there is a good case for rebalancing competences between the EU and its member states. Clearly, this would require the agreement of all 27 member states on the basis of negotiation and agreement, and could not be achieved through a unilateral decision. We have made no commitment to a particular outcome from this review. Work has begun and it is in its early stages.

In contrast to the Government’s positive and active commitment to make a success of our EU membership and our robust defence of our national interests, we have heard nothing from Her Majesty’s official Opposition save carping and an evasion of straight answers. Yet Labour was the party that committed us to the EU bail-out mechanism. This was the party that meekly surrendered £7 billion of Britain’s budget rebate. This is the party whose leader refuses to say whether he would have signed the treaty that was before the British Prime Minister last week, but tells the BBC in an interview:

“I don’t think Brussels has got too much power”.

It is a party whose leader still yearns to join the euro, but the only certainty is that if we followed its advice, we would not just be attending EU meetings, as we would be in the queue for a bail-out, along with some of the others.

The Government are committed to a positive and active role within the European Union—on the single market, on global trade and on foreign policy. That is what is in our national interest, but we will not be afraid to stand up and resist, refusing to participate in measures where we believe that they run contrary to the national interests of the United Kingdom.