Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Gauke and Simon Danczuk

Tuesday 28th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Ind)]

9. What discussions his Department has had with the Department for Communities and Local Government on the potential effect on the economy of the level of social care funding.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

The Treasury regularly discusses social care funding with the Department of Health and the Department for Communities and Local Government. We have introduced a new social care precept and additional grant funding for social care. Taken together, those provide an additional £7.6 billion of dedicated funding for social care over the four years of the current settlement. That means that councils can afford to increase spending on social care every year.

[Simon Danczuk]

The lack of funding for social care is having a devastating impact on people requiring care, carers and workers themselves. The 3% levy raises only £2.8 million for Rochdale. That does not even cover the cost of increasing the minimum wage for care workers. Does the Minister accept that?

[Mr Gauke]

As I say, it is not just about the council tax precept. We also have the better care fund coming in. We should also accept that this is not just about money. There is very variable performance around the country. It is worth pointing out that 50% of the delayed discharges attributed to social care take place in only 24 local authority areas.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Gauke and Simon Danczuk

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

We recognise that the recent weakness in our European trading partners has presented a particular challenge for SMEs trying to export. The Government are working hard to help British businesses export to a wider variety of destinations, contributing to strong recent performance in key emerging markets. That help includes a £20 million package of support this year for first-time exporters, but we need to do more and our productivity plan sets out how we will do that.

[Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab)]

Will the business rates review help small businesses? It is a simple question for a simply smart Minister.

[Mr Gauke]

I am grateful for that question—I think. It is a review; I do not want to judge in advance what the conclusions will be, but we have engaged very fully with small business organisations and listen very carefully to what they have to say, and we will report by the end of the year.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Gauke and Simon Danczuk

Tuesday 25th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

There is a substantial saving to the Exchequer through child benefit. It was not that long ago when the Leader of the Opposition said that millionaires should receive child benefit because

“it’s a cornerstone of our system to have universal benefits”.

It appears that that is no longer the case, although all we have is briefing. On winter fuel payments, the Prime Minister made it clear that they would continue in the course of this Parliament and we will fulfil that commitment.

[Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Changes to the Budget

Debate between David Gauke and Simon Danczuk

Monday 11th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his comments, and I am sure that his constituents are grateful to him for the work he has done on this matter.

[Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab)]

What estimate has the Minister made of the damage done to the bakery industry as a result of announcing a policy that has now been reversed?

[Mr Gauke]

Given that the policy does not come into effect until 1 October, we do not think any damage will have been done through the policy. We think that addressing the anomalies is the right thing to do, and we have taken the opportunity to improve the policy we initially announced.

Hot Takeaway Food (VAT)

Debate between David Gauke and Simon Danczuk

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mr Gauke]

I am grateful for that intervention. There is a carve-out in this measure that relates to bread. My hon. Friend refers to pretzels made from a dough mixture. HMRC will provide guidance on the definition of bread, so that matter will be covered once final decisions have been made.

Before I turn to some of the arguments against the proposal, I should like to step back and remind hon. Members of why we have proposed this change. As I announced to the House on 18 April, we extended the consultation period until last Friday in the light of the responses received and I have, of course, been listening to the contributions to this debate and will ensure that they are taken into account in the Chancellor’s decisions.

Ensuring that VAT will apply to the sale of all hot food—to the extent that it does not already do so—is one of a series of VAT measures announced in the Budget designed to make the VAT system fairer to all traders, and to make it easier to administer and comply with.

The current rules on the VATability of hot takeaway food have been made particularly complex and unfair by a patchwork of different legal decisions over the decades, as my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay pointed out. VAT has always applied to food consumed on the supplier’s premises, notably in restaurants and cafes, and was extended to hot takeaway food in 1984. The definition of hot takeaway food in the 1984 legislation is that the food

“has been heated for the purposes of enabling it to be consumed at a temperature above ambient air temperature”

and that it

“is above that temperature at the time it is provided to the customer.”

There have been repeated efforts since the 1980s to chip away at this boundary. A number of businesses have argued in litigation that, although the food they provide to their customers is hot and is taken away, it should not be taxed as “hot takeaway food”, but it should instead be zero rated.

Some have argued that, in heating the food, their intention was not to provide their customers with food to be eaten hot, but to follow rules of hygiene, to finish the cooking process, to provide evidence of freshness, to create an aroma, or to improve appearance, crispiness or texture of the product. Such arguments have not always been successful, but where they have been, they have allowed some businesses to secure VAT-free treatment for a range of hot food products such as hot rotisserie chickens, meat pies, pasties and panini. However, other businesses have continued to apply VAT to the similar hot food products that they sell. They have accepted, or the courts have ruled, that their intention is to heat their food products so that their customer can eat them hot. Under the current rules, the VAT rate applied to hot takeaway food depends on the particular supplier’s purpose in heating the food.

In reference to a point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), a small independent fish and chip shop will have to charge 20% VAT on its hot chicken, but a major supermarket will argue that its rotisserie chickens are zero rated. One baker who keeps his sausage rolls in a hot cabinet to provide his customers with a hot snack will charge tax, but the baker next door who also keeps them hot and argues that this is to maintain an appealing aroma will claim that they are zero rated.

The current situation is unfair, and it is right that we seek to change it. There was some agreement on that point from at least some hon. Members. That is why we are introducing new rules to ensure a level playing field. We have proposed the removal of the subjective element of the zero-rate definition, which has led to these anomalies, to provide more consistency in the taxation of hot food. As I mentioned earlier, we are adding a simple carve-out that bread, irrespective of its temperature, will not be liable.

[Simon Danczuk]

rose—

[Mr Gauke]

I will give way, but I am keen to proceed quickly.

[Simon Danczuk]

Will the Minister address the point that I made about the samosa tax issue?

[Mr Gauke]

On that point, our proposal is that if food is sold at above ambient temperature, it is standard-rated, which is the same as takeaway food from Indian restaurants.

We have heard a number of arguments about why businesses will find it difficult to apply the test on ambient temperature. The test to determine whether takeaway food is hot is not new; it has been in place since 1984. However, I accept that, in many cases, suppliers do not need to ask themselves that question because they accept that their takeaway food is meant to be eaten hot and thus they pay tax even if, on a handful of occasions, the food may not actually be hot. They may make use of one of the other arguments about the purpose of the heating, and thus do not pay tax, even if the food is hot. However, the test is reasonably straightforward and will be policed in a pragmatic way.

Some hot food will have been kept hot or provided straight from the oven and will obviously be standard-rated under our proposals. In most other cases, people know when something is hotter than the air around it. A leading high street bakery chain, which has campaigned against these changes, said on its own website that customers who want a hot sausage roll should test whether the sausage roll is hot enough by feeling the temperature through the bag.

It is important to inject some common sense into this potentially trivial debate about food that at one moment is hot and at another is at ambient air temperature. We are not expecting staff to take detailed temperature readings every time they sell a pasty. HMRC will take a pragmatic approach and provide businesses with guidance, taking into account businesses’ responses on how to implement the change.