Polish Anti-defamation Law

Debate between Daniel Kawczynski and Louise Ellman

Tuesday 5th June 2018 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West (Alex Sobel). He has raised a very important issue at a very apt time, and I agree with what he has said.

This is a time of great concern, because there is an increase in both holocaust denial and anti-Semitism right across Europe. Given that background, it is extremely concerning that legislation has been passed in a European country that could be seen as trying to stifle debate, discussion and research about the holocaust.

It is certainly true that Nazi death camps—Nazi camps of extermination—are not Polish death camps. That is clear; that is unambiguous. However, the legislation about which we are very concerned goes much wider than that and could make it illegal to discuss any Polish association with the extermination of Polish Jews. That extermination and persecution took place not only in those Nazi death camps—those Nazi camps of extermination. It also took place within Polish communities in civil society, and it is extremely wrong to try to shut down debate and knowledge about those activities.

[Daniel Kawczynski]

The hon. Lady says that this law is not the right way for the Polish Government to tackle this issue. However, when we bear in mind that I have been writing to the BBC for over seven years to ask it to be more sensitive about this issue, and the BBC continues to refer to “Polish death camps”, what is her advice to the Polish Government and other organisations that worry about the intransigence and lack of sensitivity of the BBC?

[Mrs Ellman]

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s concern and that of others about a description of Nazi extermination camps as “Polish death camps”—an erroneous description—but the answer to that is not to try to shut down discussion about the holocaust and its depravities.

The relationship between Jewish Poles and the wider Polish community is indeed very complex. At Yad Vashem, which I visited in Jerusalem only last week, 6,700 Polish people are recognised as righteous among the nations. They were Polish non-Jews who supported Jews in those terrible times, on many occasions risking their own lives. They are rightly recognised and honoured there.

However, there is also a lot more in that complex history to be recognised—for example, the massacre at Jedwabne in 1941, when all but six of the town’s Jewish inhabitants were set upon by their non-Jewish neighbours and burnt alive in a barn. That was truly horrendous, and it was not an isolated occurrence. Before the Nazi extermination began, the Jewish communities in Poland were very strong. They were majorities in significant areas of Poland, yet today there is hardly a Jew left. I have heard first-hand testimony from a relation of mine, who has now passed away but who was born and brought up in Kraków, about the shock and horror at their non-Jewish neighbours, who they had regarded as friends, turning against them in those terrible times. So the relationship is complex and the full history needs to be known.

It should be a matter of great concern that Yad Vashem itself, the Holocaust Educational Trust and some Polish historians have registered great concern about the potential impact of this legislation shutting down debate and research about what happened in Poland during the holocaust.

Holocaust Memorial Day

Debate between Daniel Kawczynski and Louise Ellman

Thursday 18th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Ellman]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I draw his attention to the official statement about what Holocaust Memorial Day constitutes. It states very clearly that in addition to recognising the holocaust, it recognises other atrocities that have taken place since that time, including in Darfur and Cambodia. That has always been written into the official remit of Holocaust Memorial Day.

[Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con)]

Further to that intervention, may I also say to the hon. Lady that at this time we ought to be celebrating and commemorating the Christians who gave up their lives to save Jewish families during the second world war? The brother of my grandfather, Jan Kawczynski, hid Jewish families on his estate. When the Germans found out, they shot his daughter and his wife, and then him. I think that this is a very important time to remember those Christians who sacrificed their lives to protect Jewish neighbours.

[Mrs Ellman]

The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely important point. Indeed, the people he named and others who contributed similar actions are recognised under a special category of the “righteous gentiles”. They are recognised in the Yad Vashem memorial in Jerusalem and also recognised in special British honours. They therefore have a very special place in our history and our minds.

Today we must reflect on the horrors of the past and the disturbing trends of the present. Together, as we commemorate Holocaust Memorial Day 2018, we must ensure that action is taken to tackle the longest hatred.