Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Dan Poulter and David Wright

Tuesday 1st April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Dr Poulter]

I will certainly be happy to look into the issue. My hon. Friend will be aware that the closure decisions were made on clinical safety grounds, for the safety of women. It is a temporary issue. One of the outstanding problems in my hon. Friend’s part of the world and elsewhere when we came into government was a historical shortage of midwives. That is why we are investing in more midwives. There are already 1,500 more in the NHS and I believe that six more will be recruited to the local NHS in his area.

[David Wright (Telford) (Lab)]

T9. Mental health services in Telford are under review and the Castle Lodge facility has been closed for a considerable time. It has been heavily used by people in the community who do not have to be admitted into Shrewsbury. Will the Minister confirm that if local people want to retain Castle Lodge, as I believe they do, it will be retained?

Health Funding (Telford and Wrekin)

Debate between Dan Poulter and David Wright

Tuesday 7th January 2014 Westminster Hall

[David Wright]

I absolutely agree with everything the Minister says—it is basic common sense. Although I am glad to hear him say it, and it is really positive, it would be helpful if he could address one concern, although I am not necessarily suggesting he will have an answer today.

I accept that we want to get people out of hospital and into their homes if possible to ensure they are cared for effectively. However, he must admit that the figures I highlighted, as well as the local authority’s concerns, suggest there has been a fairly significant reduction in the CHC pot. Given the scale of the local authority’s budget, compared with the health service’s budget, that reduction has an enormous knock-on effect on the local authority. I hope the Minister will take some time to look at that.

[Dr Poulter]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to highlight the issue. The point I was coming on to is that although the region’s funding allocation from the Government through NHS England is going up, the CCG obviously has some local discretion over how that allocation is spent, and that goes to the heart of the matter.

As has been highlighted, continuing health care funding is the crux of this matter, and it is relevant to mention NHS continuing health care, which is a package of ongoing care arranged and funded solely by the NHS where the individual is found to have a primary health need. The NHS provides that throughout the country, and it is vital that it does.

There is sometimes quite a blurred line between where NHS funding and care end and where local authority responsibility starts. The issue is not whose budget is involved or which budget the money comes from, and that is part of the reason why the Government set up the £3.8 billion integrated care fund. This is about joining up budgets. The hon. Gentleman and I, the doctors and nurses on the ground, and the local authority are interested in the person, rather than who pays for treatment. The fund is a recognition of that, and we are setting it up to drive forward joined-up working.

However, we have to look at where we are now and why we have come to the place the hon. Gentleman highlighted. He will be aware that audits were carried out in 2009-10 and 2010-11 of the then PCT’s accounts. It was decided that the continuing health care funding was not being allocated properly, appropriately or even, potentially, legally.

At that point, the PCT was putting a lot of additional money into continuing health care, but a similar approach was not being taken elsewhere in the country. The auditors therefore rightly took the view that funding had to be allocated in accordance with the correct public rules for spending money, including NHS money, and that if money was, potentially, being allocated in an illegal way, that needed to be addressed under the rules at that time.

[David Wright]

rose—

[Dr Poulter]

I absolutely accept—the hon. Gentleman may wish to elaborate on this in his intervention—that, fundamentally, this is not about rules, but about making sure we have a better service for people. That is what we need to focus on.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Wright]

Yes, indeed, I do believe that. My concern is that the figures I highlighted suggest that, in comparison with similar and surrounding authorities, we are doing very badly per head of population in terms of the assessment process for qualification for continuing health care. That suggests to me that the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction and that the assessment procedure is being used to ensure that the figures are kept down.

I am concerned that some people with care needs in the community will lose out—as the Minister rightly said, this is not about structures and silos in the health service, but about individuals and their families in the community who are trying to cope.

[Dr Poulter]

The hon. Gentleman is right. In terms of the per capita spend in CCG allocations, Suffolk similarly has large towns with very rural surrounding areas, and the CCG in the hon. Gentleman’s area has a fairly similar allocation to the one I represent.

There is also an issue about how the money given to CCGs is spent. In a knee-jerk reaction, perhaps, to the auditors’ findings and the fact that the spend was not allocated appropriately, Telford and Wrekin went from being almost one of the highest spenders on continuing health care to being one of the lowest, and that is the crux of the problem. That is down to decisions by the CCG, or the PCT as it was, about how to allocate the budget given to it.

If, in 2009, 2010 and 2011, the PCT was picking up funding responsibilities that should perhaps have been the local authority’s, but then, in response to the audit, changed the amount it allocated to continuing health care, that could clearly have a destabilising effect on the local authority. However, the PCT and then the CCG have done everything they can to mitigate that, and they have given the local authority discretionary funding.

In particular, just over £3 million has gone to the local authority thanks to the fund set up by my right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley) to facilitate exactly that kind of activity. At its own discretion, the CCG has also given the council £2.4 million on top of that, over and above what the council expected to receive. The CCG has therefore acknowledged and accepted that, in reacting to the auditors, there was perhaps an over-reaction, and it has now righted that by giving the local authority some discretionary additional funding.

That does not detract from the overriding point that, generally throughout the country, and particularly in Telford and Wrekin, we need to see increased emphasis on integration and joined-up care. It is in no one’s interests to have such discussions about funding, which waste a lot of time and effort on the part of the local authority and the CCG. If we can drive more joined-up working, more joint commissioning and more pooled budgets, where appropriate, as the Government will be doing through the Care Bill and the integration fund, the number of these turf wars will be reduced, because the emphasis will be on the patient, rather than the budgetary silo. That must be the right way forward.

I am sorry that, in this instance, the hon. Gentleman’s constituents and local authority have perhaps been caught up in errors made by the former PCT, although I am pleased the CCG is doing all it can to redress the balance by giving the local authority discretionary additional funding. I hope working relationships will improve and that, as we move forward, with further emphasis centrally on integrated health care and joined-up budgets, we will see greater improvements to the local health care economy and, more importantly, continuing improvements to patient care locally. If the hon. Gentleman wants to discuss the matter further or to meet me, I will be happy to do so.