Finance (No. 4) Bill

Debate between Claire Perry and Jacob Rees-Mogg

Monday 16th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend is absolutely spot-on, because every single socialist Government this country has ever had have always left the country in a financial mess, as they believe that by squeezing the rich until the pips squeak they can get more revenue, when history shows that they cannot.

The success of the Government’s fiscal plan is shown day in, day out by the bond market. Interest rates on our 10-year gilts are just about 2%. When we look abroad—when we look to the continent—we see how quickly those rates can deteriorate for countries in which the markets lose confidence. The greatest tribute to this Government’s economic policy is what has been happening in the bond market.

We must thank our Liberal friends for another great measure in this Finance Bill: the raising of thresholds. That has, quite rightly, been adopted by Conservatives. It is sensible that people should not pay tax when they are on benefits. The higher the threshold can be raised so that we avoid this merry-go-round of tax and benefits, the better.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for making that point about thresholds. Does he share my pleasure in the fact that the majority of people benefiting from that threshold being raised are women, many of them working part time?

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

That is a tremendously important point, because we have heard some complaints that couples, where both are working, are particular beneficiaries. But I think that that is great; I think that where the husband and wife are both going out to work, one of them is a relatively low earner and the whole family income benefits, that is good for men, women and probably their children, too. So this is absolutely the right policy.

In addition, we have cut corporation tax, a pro-business policy. We saw how well Ireland did by cutting corporation tax—[[Hon. Members: “It went bust!”] The reason Ireland went bust was not its low corporation tax. The reason Ireland went bust was because it joined the euro, a policy of which a lot of Labour Members were all in favour. Ireland’s corporation tax was behind it becoming a very successful economy and attracting companies to go there to do business. We want to do the same and I am glad that the Government have so much ambition to continue reducing corporation tax, to the benefit of the nation.

When we look at these great and bold things that have been done—getting the deficit under control, lowering the top rate of tax, raising thresholds and lowering corporation tax—we see that big, important measures have been taken. Yet what is the Budget criticised for? What is the Finance Bill criticised for? The answer is pasties. I have to say that the VAT levels charged are required to raise revenue and they include all sorts of funny things and they exclude some odd ones, too. Many of us will remember all the fuss there was about whether Jaffa cakes were cakes or biscuits, and whether, as a cake, they were exempt or whether, as a biscuit, they had VAT paid on them.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Debate between Claire Perry and Jacob Rees-Mogg

Wednesday 20th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

Mr Evans, thank you so much for calling me. It has been enlightening, educational and a real honour to listen to this debate since we last divided the House some hours ago. I have listened to some fine speeches. The hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) put his case with such pith and moment that I was almost persuaded to vote against my own side. The spectre that arose before us was one so terrifying and so fearful that we quaked in our Tory boots; it was the spectre of clause 9 leading us to proportional representation. The fear that came upon me was that as a result of setting a number so precise and clear that it could not be questioned even by the great and good of the Boundary Commission, we could face proportional representation. I saw other right hon. and hon. Members struck with fear at the thought, and I saw them feeling that they would move towards supporting greater flexibility.

My hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) offered us an amendment that would meet almost every objective of Her Majesty’s Government but would still have flexibility—that great aspect of the British constitution, which has served us well since Alfred the Great, who was a Somerset man. I debate with my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath) whether Alfred is more my constituent or his; I think, in fairness, that he would belong more to the Deputy Leader of the House. This constitutional flexibility is something that has been of great benefit to us. I feel that my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes got it right in saying that it is useful for there to be some degree to which one can go outside the boundaries, without being too prescriptive.

On the subject of today’s speeches, what a fantastic history lesson we had from the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt). To think that this was supposedly the least discussed reform of Parliament since the Rump Parliament, when Cromwell decided to send in the troops—the only man to send troops into the predecessor building to this House to enforce debate and Divisions. Some of us may think that the Whips are tough, aggressive and forceful, but even in my experience they have not used force, or pikes, to make sure that I go in the right direction. Oliver Cromwell did indeed do that; he prevented people from voting in that forceful way. The shadow Minister returned us to these matters again and again, and spoke for at least 50 glorious minutes—minutes that felt to me like days, but days of such pleasure, joy and rejoicing in spirit that I hope we will have another 50 minutes from him in due course, or on another occasion, or perhaps tomorrow, if we should be so lucky.

Let us return to the specifics of numbers. Should it be 650, or perhaps 649? Should it be 648 or 647?

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

Higher!

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend would like to have more—perhaps it is a “points mean prizes” occasion. However, I think that 600 is not too bad a number. One hon. Member suggested 666—the number of the beast. It is worth being careful about the number 666, because if we read our Bible carefully there is always a footnote saying that other ancient authorities refer to 616. I am glad that my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes set his limit at 612, clearly aware of the dangers of going as high as 616 and thereby finding that we inadvertently had in this House the number of seats that was the number of the beast. We know what that would mean: it would be deeply terrifying—almost as terrifying as the threat of proportional representation.

We had great discussions about the great and noble historical counties, and the wickedness of Humberside and suchlike. I would like to add that Avon was even worse than Humberside. Avon was an abomination—a foul creature disgusting in all respects, destroyed, I am glad to say, by the noble father of my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer). In the numerical aspect, it is important to look at the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome in representing so many Somersetshire constituents. It seems important that the people of Somerset should have as much representation as the people of Rhondda—indeed, I think rather more, because we are from Somerset and they are from Wales. A few extra seats should be especially included, to give Somerset the representation that that wonderful county needs.

I will say just one final thing about seats, because time is getting on. In the Parliament of, I believe, 1392—let me just check that in my notes—no, the Parliament of 1362, one Member, a Mr John Wonard, represented two seats in Devonshire and two in Cornwall. It seems to me that the flexibility that the history of our nation allows ensures that the number will always come out right in the end. A right and suitable number we shall have, a fine and good number, a lucky number, perhaps a number that the—