Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill
Debate between Chuka Umunna and Stephen Pound
Mr Umunna
I certainly agree that we should increase the procurement opportunities for our SMEs. When we were in government, we put in place a number of targets, which this Government have sought to build on. We should certainly ensure that those businesses have better access to those opportunities; I speak to many such businesses that tell me that they do not.
Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)
Further to my hon. Friend’s point about the additional costs and duties that will descend upon the shoulders of ACAS, does he agree that this Government have a poor record, particularly in the area of the fitness to work test? What might seem to be a saving often ends up costing them an enormous amount of money. I do not wish to distract him with the good news that has just reached us of the inspirational leadership of Roy Hodgson in Donetsk—I believe that 1-1 is the precise figure—but does he see a need for primary legislation or orders to provide the additional sums that ACAS will inevitably require, or does he think that an amount of money been put to one side for the purpose? ACAS will be facing a heavy demand and will require a great deal of money.
Mr Umunna
I stand corrected. On my hon. Friend’s point about the resourcing of ACAS, we do not know what its budget will be for the next three years. We shall study that question carefully in the light of the, I think, £12 million reduction in its budget over the recent period.
I shall return to the composition of employment tribunals. The Bill envisages simple or low-value claims being decided by a legal officer without the need for a hearing. That might assist in the rapid resolution of disputes, which would be welcome, but it is important that any decision made by those officers should be able to be reviewed by an employment judge if either party so wished. We are currently considering a four-track system: simple claims covering issues such as amounts of holiday pay could be dealt with outside the tribunal, perhaps by a legal officer; standard unfair dismissal claims would be dealt with by tribunals in the usual way; complicated equal pay claims could be dealt with by a specialist court; and high-value claims could automatically be dealt with by a higher court.
We do not welcome the Government’s proposal that all employment appeal tribunal cases be heard, in the main, by a judge alone, instead of by a panel including lay members. We oppose that—[Interruption.] The Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb) says, “For goodness’ sake”, but lay members are very much welcomed by employees and employers as they provide balance and perspective to deliberations. That extends to deliberations in the employment appeal tribunal on legal issues.
Before I move on to the competition aspects of the Bill—I am aware that I am going on—I want to mention that there are other employment proposals that we will address in more detail in Committee.