Apprenticeships and Skills (Public Procurement Contracts) Bill
Debate between Chuka Umunna and David Nuttall(11 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Nuttall
I do not want to jump ahead too far in my speech, or I shall run the risk of repeating myself later. The hon. Gentleman is right about the provision in clause 2:
“A relevant contract must require the contractor to—
(a) advertise all vacancies”.
I have my concerns about that, which I will come to. Before that, let me deal with the question whether the Bill is mandatory or permissive, which is where I started this preliminary remark.
Although I am constantly told that the Bill is permissive in so far as clause 1 is concerned, I have concerns, as I mentioned briefly in an intervention, that if the guidelines were altered, one interpretation of clause 1(1)(b) would mean that a tenderer—somebody applying for a contract—could be required to do as the clause states. It would be mandatory in those circumstances because the clause says:
“must . . .
(b) ensure that the provisions in the guidelines issued by the OGC . . . are reflected in that contract”.
If that provision were used, it would become mandatory. I say that by way of preliminary comment.
Two or three speakers have mentioned the number of higher level apprenticeships, level 4. The statistics that I have, which I think are the most recent ones, show that the number of level 4 apprenticeships increased from 3,700 in 2011-12 to 9,000 in 2012-13. Although these are still small numbers, they are the very highest level apprenticeships, which are a fairly new creation, so by definition the numbers will be small because it takes a while for people to follow through the lower levels and to be able to move on to the higher level. That step change in those numbers from 3,700 to 9,000 shows the general direction of travel.
I start by congratulating the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish on his success in coming so high up in the ballot for private Members’ Bills that he secured pole position on one of the coveted first seven Fridays, which means that he could be certain of having his Bill debated. It deals, as I said, with a worthy cause and at first sight it seems very attractive, but that is all that can be said for it. It is superficially attractive, but I fear that it will not achieve what he wishes to achieve. I share with him the desire that there should be more higher quality apprenticeships, but as I will go on to say, all the evidence, and there is plenty of it, shows that the route that the Government have taken over the past three years has increased the number of apprentices.
The Bill goes to the heart of the debate about the extent to which the Government—any Government—should micro-manage individual businesses and their relationship with Government.
Mr Umunna
The hon. Gentleman can carry on giving his speech for as long he is obviously going to, but is it not the case that he can address many of the issues he raises in Committee? As is habitually the case on Fridays, when he often appears in the House, is this not an ideological attempt to stand in the way of a very good piece of legislation which will complement what the Government are doing to boost apprenticeships in his community, for which some of his local councillors, such as James Frith, have been arguing for some time? That is what this is about.
Mr Nuttall
As we have heard this morning, the fact that someone opposes a Bill does not mean that they oppose a particular cause, whether that be, as in this case, apprenticeships, or anything else. I want to put on the record that I know all about apprenticeships and working and learning at the same time.
Mr Nuttall
I am pointing out some of the flaws in the Bill, which is what I was elected to do. If the Bill is such a good idea, why in 2009, when the OGC produced the original “Promoting skills through public procurement”, did not the Labour Government enact the Bill to go with it? There is a good question.