Benefit Claimants Sanctions (Required Assessment) Bill

Debate between Chris Stephens and Conor Burns

Friday 2nd December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Conor Burns]

I will make a little progress, if I may, and then I will give way to the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens).

We should also understand that this system of sanctions is not new; it has operated and existed for decades. It underlies a fundamental principle of ensuring that those who are being supported are not abusing the support that is being offered. There is a very real risk that the practical effect of the hon. Lady’s Bill, however well intentioned it is, would be to render the system of sanctions impotent, preventing it from encouraging claimants to meet their commitments.

It is important that we understand the historical context and practical purpose of sanctions. Conditionality has been a long-standing feature of welfare benefit entitlements in the UK since the formation of the welfare state itself. The Beveridge report spoke of the citizen having a “profound reciprocal obligation” to co-operate fully in the restoration of his earning power. Maintenance would be provided by society but

“only to the extent to which its members are willing to accept their corresponding social obligations”.

Access to full unemployment benefits has always been conditional on the recipient being involuntarily unemployed, being available for work and doing as much as can reasonably be expected to find such employment.

[Chris Stephens]

The hon. Gentleman has been talking about the “taxpayer” and about how benefits are not a right. Does he know that 3,665 employees in the Department for Work and Pensions are chasing benefit fraud estimated at £1.2 billion, but that only 320 employees are based in the High Net Worth Unit of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs chasing tax avoidance estimated at £70 billion? Should we not be going after the tax avoiders far more than we should the most vulnerable in our society?

[Conor Burns]

First, I say to the hon. Gentleman that I did not say that benefits are not a right; benefits are a right, and a right that I fully respect and uphold. Secondly, on the point that we have heard many times—we had Opposition day debates on it when I was a bag carrier in the Treasury—as he knows, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, when he was Financial Secretary to the Treasury, reconfigured HMRC by focusing on more regional offices, so that we can have greater impact in the collection powers of HMRC and the focus it has on ensuring that the tax collected is the tax owed.

Benefit Claimants Sanctions (Required Assessment) Bill

Debate between Chris Stephens and Conor Burns

2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 2nd December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Conor Burns]

I agree that that seems absolutely illogical, and I am pretty certain, on the basis of what the hon. Lady says, that that individual would be successful in appealing. It is a logical absurdity to suggest that a claimant would be fined while waiting to take up a job, unless the commencement of that job was, say, two years down the line.

I shall describe the second step to the House. If, when reviewing the claimant’s activity, the work coach identifies that an activity has not been completed, they will: tell the claimant why the doubt has arisen; ask the claimant to provide the reasons for their failure and any supporting evidence to help the decision maker reach their decision; tell the claimant what will happen next, how they will be notified of the outcome and how to challenge the decision if they disagree with it; and provide the claimant with information about hardship and how to claim it.

In the third stage, details of the failure and any available supporting information or evidence are referred by the work coach to a decision maker. The work coach will include any details they have of factors that may affect the claimant’s capacity, such as caring responsibilities, health and wellbeing issues, accommodation problems or anything else that is relevant.

In step four, the decision maker reviews the case. If required, the claimant and/or relevant third party are contacted to provide any clarification or additional information, either by telephone, email or letter. For provider referrals, including those relating to the Work programme, the decision maker tells the claimant that a doubt has arisen, gives the reasons and asks the claimant to provide the reasons for their failure and any supporting evidence.

In the fifth step, the decision maker considers all the available information and decides whether the claimant had a good reason for their failure and whether a sanction is therefore appropriate.

The sixth stage involves the details of the decision being sent to the appropriate benefits centre for processing.

In the seventh step, the claimant is issued with a notification letter to inform them of the decision. When a sanction has been applied, that notification includes details of the reason for, and the period of, the sanction, how to claim hardship and what the claimant should do if they want more information about the decision and/or want to challenge it.

[Chris Stephens]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the next step involves someone in that position having to phone an 0345 number, for which a mobile phone provider will charge 45p a minute? Can he explain why the Government have rejected the advice of the Social Security Advisory Committee that all phone calls to the DWP should be on 0800 numbers and therefore free?

[Conor Burns]

I have heard that point be made a number of times. The hon. Gentleman might wish to intervene on the Minister later, because he will be in a better position to explain the Government’s position than I, a humble Back-Bench bag carrier, am.