Online Safety Bill (Seventh sitting)

Debate between Chris Philp and Jane Stevenson

Committee stage
Thursday 9th June 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Chris Philp]

I will address the review clause now, since it is relevant. If, in due course, as I hope and expect, the Bill has the desired effect, perhaps that would be the moment to consider the case for an ombudsman. The critical step is to take a systemic approach, which the Bill is doing. That engages the question of new clause 1, which would create a mechanism, probably for the reason the hon. Lady just set out, to review how things are going and to see if, in due course, there is a case for an ombudsman, once we see how the Bill unfolds in practice.

[Jane Stevenson]

Will the Minister give way?

[Chris Philp]

Let me finish the point. It is not a bad idea to review it and see how it is working in practice. Clause 149 already requires a review to take place between two and four years after Royal Assent. For the reasons that have been set out, it is pretty clear from this debate that we would expect the review to include precisely that question. If we had an ombudsman on day one, before the systems and processes had had a chance to have their effect, I fear that the ombudsman would be overwhelmed with millions of individual issues. The solution lies in fixing the problem systemically.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Philp]

Because we need to give the new systems and processes time to take effect. If the hon. Lady felt so strongly that an ombudsman was required, she was entirely at liberty to table an amendment to introduce one, but she has not done so.

[Jane Stevenson]

I wonder whether Members would be reassured if companies were required to have a mechanism by which users could register their dissatisfaction, to enable an ombudsman, or perhaps Ofcom, to gauge the volume of dissatisfaction and bring some kind of group claim against the company. Is that a possibility?

[Chris Philp]

Yes. My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. If there is a systemic problem and a platform fails to act appropriately not just in one case, but in a number of them, we have, as she has just described, the super-complaints process in clauses 140 to 142. Even under the Bill as drafted, without any changes, if a platform turns out to be systemically ignoring reasonable complaints made by the public and particular groups of users, the super-complainants will be able to do exactly as she describes. There is a mechanism to catch this—it operates not at individual level, but at the level of groups of users, via the super-complaint mechanism—so I honestly feel that the issue has been addressed.

When the numbers are so large, I think that the super-complaint mechanism is the right way to push Ofcom if it does not notice. Obviously, the first line of defence is that companies comply with the Bill. The second line of defence is that if they fail to do so, Ofcom will jump on them. The third line of defence is that if Ofcom somehow does not notice, a super-complaint group—such as the NSPCC, acting for children—will make a super-complaint to Ofcom. We have three lines of defence, and I submit to the Committee that they are entirely appropriate.

Channel Crossings in Small Boats

Debate between Chris Philp and Jane Stevenson

Wednesday 2nd September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Philp]

No one is detained in a hotel: they are given free hotel accommodation. In relation to modern slavery, the national referral mechanism provides extremely comprehensive protection to those people who have suffered from the appalling crime of modern slavery.

[Jane Stevenson (Wolverhampton North East) (Con)]

While the English channel route remains viable, criminal gangs will continue to exploit vulnerable people and put lives at risk. My constituents want those gangs stopped. What further intelligence measures can we take with our French colleagues to trace the vessels being purchased by criminal gangs? They are large vessels and surely more could be done to trace them.

[Chris Philp]

Work is under way in that area. The French authorities have clamped down a great deal on the sale of those vessels, so some of the more organised criminals now seek to procure them not in France but in other countries in Europe. Many of the migrants have now resorted to stealing boats and other vessels around northern France and the French police are working hard to try to prevent that.