Holocaust Memorial and Learning Centre

Debate between Chris Bryant and Paul Scully

Thursday 21st July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Paul Scully]

As I have said, the education centre would be complementary to the Imperial War Museum. We believe that the plans are consistent with the provisions of the London County Council (Improvements) Act 1900, and that is why we are disappointed by the result of the court case. The design is sensitive to the existing gardens and would allow residents and visitors alike to continue to benefit from the green space, but we will clearly reflect on the court decision.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

The memorial has to be near Parliament. At a time when antisemitism was commonplace, in the 1930s in British society, Victor Cazalet MP was the first person in the House to warn of the coming holocaust. Jack Macnamara MP visited Dachau and when he came back he said that we had to fight Hitler. Rob Bernays MP was called “a filthy Jew” by Hitler’s friends in Germany. All three of them lost their lives and have shields on the walls of the Chamber. This is intimately about Parliament, democracy and antisemitism, and we have to put those things together.

[Paul Scully]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his usual erudite approach. There is not a lot I can add, but he is right about the need to site the memorial next to the centre of our democracy.

Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Bill

Debate between Chris Bryant and Paul Scully

Committee stage
Monday 7th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully)]

Over the last 10 days, the world has watched the actions of Vladimir Putin in shock and horror. The ability to tackle dirty money and impose economic sanctions has never been so important. We are putting the Bill through in an expedited way. It is important that I put on the record what the Bill will do and set out the intention behind the Government amendments. I will seek to be brief because a number of right hon. and hon. Members are keen to speak to their amendments.

As my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary set out earlier, the Bill has four main objectives. First, it will prevent and combat the use of land in the UK for money laundering purposes through the establishment of the public register of beneficial owners of overseas entities owning land in the UK, which will be held by Companies House. Secondly, it will reform the UK’s unexplained wealth order regime to enable law enforcement to investigate the origin of properties and recover the proceeds of crime. Those measures remove key barriers to the effective use of UWO powers and will increase and reinforce operational confidence in relation to their use. Thirdly, it will amend financial sanctions legislation, including the test for imposing monetary penalties and powers, to publicly name those breaching financial sanctions. That will make it easier for the Government to act against those who fail to comply with sanctions. Fourthly, it will amend the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018 to streamline the current legislation so the Government can respond even more swiftly and effectively to sanction oligarchs and other businesses associated with Putin’s regime.

Part 1 establishes the new register of overseas entities, which will require overseas companies owning or buying property in the UK to provide the information about their true owners. Clauses 1 to 6 provide an overview of the register, define an overseas entity and establish the register and registration process. Clauses 7 to 11 set out the duties for updating and removing entities from the register. Clauses 12 to 19 set out mechanisms for obtaining, updating and verifying information, penalties for non-compliance and exemptions to various requirements.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Amendments 24 and 25 would require that, when someone is registering or updating, they also have to notify the fact that one of the people to whom they are referring as an overseas person is a sanctioned individual. Will the Government accept those amendments tonight?

[Paul Scully]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I have spoken to colleagues across the House. We will certainly look at how to draft the measure correctly to ensure that it serves its purpose. We will certainly look in the other place to debate that further.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Bryant]

The more we can present a united front—particularly tomorrow—the better, so I will of course not press the amendment.

[Paul Scully]

I am grateful for the spirit the hon. Gentleman shows.

Let me turn to new clause 29, tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis). I thank him for his innovative suggestion to provide a power for the Secretary of State aimed at the prevention of asset flight prior to the formal imposition of sanctions. Members will have seen that since my right hon. Friend tabled his new clause we have expanded the Bill with new provisions from the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office. Those additional measures aim to ensure that we can respond even more effectively to world events using sanctions.

We strongly support measures to ensure that sanctions are effective. The Government amendments will ensure that we can go further and faster to make new sanctions designations. It is hoped that our amendments will go a significant way towards dealing with the kinds of situation that my right hon. Friend may have in mind. I remind the House that the register is not a seizure mechanism in itself. Law enforcement agencies already have the powers to seize property if there is evidence of wrongdoing. Such powers underpinned the restraining, freezing or seizure of more than £979 million-worth of assets in 2020-21. We have swiftly implemented the strongest set of economic sanctions ever imposed against a G20 country.

I see the intent behind amendments 3 and 40, the latter of which would have no effect as the Bill already provides that a beneficial owner must register as a trustee of a trust if they are one. Amendment 3 would not have the effect that we believe is sought, but I can see the potential merit in such an amendment and assure the House that we will look further at the intent behind the proposal to see whether there is a workable alternative.

I thank the right hon. Member for Barking for tabling new clause 2, which seeks to place an obligation on the Secretary of State to provide additional reporting on the funding of enforcement agencies. The NCA and enforcement agencies like it have a duty to be open and transparent in their deployment of public funds. The agencies publish annual reports on their expenditure that can be found online. The Government have developed a sustainable funding model that demonstrates our commitment to tackling economic crime. The combination of this year’s spending review settlement and the private sector contributions through the levy will provide around £400 million of funding in respect of economic crime over the spending review period. Since 2006-07, just under £1.2 billion-worth of assets recovered under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 have been returned to law enforcement agencies, prosecutors and the courts to fund further asset-recovery capability or work that protects the public from harm.

New clause 4, tabled by the hon. Member for Glasgow Central, would make the registrar of companies the AML supervisor of overseas entities. We believe that is unnecessary as the Bill already requires the verification of registerable beneficial owners and the managing officers of overseas entities. We expect that that will be done by a UK anti-money laundering supervised professional so believe that such supervision is already in place.

On amendment 4, the Bill currently enables the Secretary of State to exempt a person from the requirement to register in three circumstances. The circumstances outlined in the Bill have been carefully considered to provide clarity and flexibility for unforeseeable but legitimate scenarios. Given that the register’s key objectives are to improve transparency and combat money laundering, the exemptions will be used carefully for evidenced and legitimate reasons.

I thank everybody who has been involved in the Bill. The process has been done at such pace but we are determined to use the next few days to get this absolutely right.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Economic Crime: Planned Government Bill

Debate between Chris Bryant and Paul Scully

Wednesday 26th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Paul Scully]

My right hon. Friend raises some interesting and important points. I will ask the relevant Minister, likely Lord Callanan from the other place, to meet him, but I am happy to meet him either way.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I am sorry—the Minister is a nice chap—but we have been calling for this Bill for ages and ages. Time after time, Ministers come back to the House to say, “Yes, there’s going to be a public register of beneficial ownership,” but it still has not happened. They say they will do it in the overseas territories, but it still has not happened. They say that they will stop giving out golden visas to Russians with dodgy money coming into the UK, but it still has not happened. We in this country are a soft touch. If we want to send a strong message to Russia, particularly at the moment, we have to move swiftly and not say, “Oh, I can’t possibly comment on what legislation we might be thinking of in the future.”

[Paul Scully]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that—it was a shame he did not stop at his first sentence, but it was very kind of him. I appreciate all of those measures that he wants to put in place and, as I say, we remain undiminished on that. In the meantime, we have sanctions to tackle corruption from other countries. We already have very robust procedures in place, but we know we need to go further. That is why these measures will come, but I cannot pre-empt Her Majesty.

Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 (Coronavirus) (Amendment of Schedule 10) (No. 2) Regulations 2021

Debate between Chris Bryant and Paul Scully

Wednesday 27th October 2021 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully)]

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

[Paul Scully]

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

[Paul Scully]

[Chris Bryant]

[Paul Scully]

[Paul Scully]

[Chris Bryant]

[Paul Scully]

[Paul Scully]

[Chris Bryant]

[Paul Scully]

Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 (Coronavirus) (Amendment of Schedule 10) (No. 2) Regulations 2021

Debate between Chris Bryant and Paul Scully

Wednesday 27th October 2021 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Huq. I beg to move that the Committee approves the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 (Coronavirus) (Amendment of Schedule 10) (No. 2) Regulations 2021 (S.I. 2021, No. 1091).

These regulations were laid before the House on 28 September 2021. We are here again discussing another snappily titled statutory instrument after the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 introduced a suite of permanent and temporary measures to help companies weather the effects of the pandemic. Most of those temporary measures, including the relaxation of wrongful trading, expired at the end of June this year. However, the restrictions on company winding-up protections were extended for a further three months until the end of September. Since their introduction, those restrictions—despite also being a severe restriction on creditors’ right to enforce recovery of their debts—have helped to protect from unnecessary insolvency the many businesses that were unable to trade due to the national lockdown periods.

Now that we are back to full trading, following the successful completion of the Government’s four-step road map out of lockdown on 19 July, the signs are indicative of a strong economic bounce back. However, many businesses—particularly those in the hospitality, retail and travel sectors that were most affected by the lockdown restrictions for over a year—have been acutely affected, and their solvency will be threatened by accrued debts and low cash reserves before they have been given a chance to trade their way back to financial health. They therefore need a further period of protections to allow them to do so, but as businesses are now trading normally and have been able to do so since the middle of June this year, it is right that any further period of protection given should recognise that fact and bring back some creditor rights.

As such, these regulations introduce a new form of restriction on winding up companies that is tapered from the version that has been in place since last year. To put it another way, we are still protecting those businesses that most need it; we are also promoting a gradual return to the normal functioning of the insolvency framework.

This instrument replaces the previous high bar for winding-up petitions on the ground of inability to pay debts introduced by the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act—which required that petitioners should satisfy a court that those debts were not covid-19 related—with new targeted criteria for creditors that seek to encourage dialogue with their debtors prior to pursuing a winding up. The new and temporary criteria for petitioning creditors that came into force on 1 October 2021 for a period of six months are threefold: a requirement for creditors to demonstrate that they have sought to negotiate repayment of a debt before seeking to wind a company up; that the debt owed must be at least £10,000; and that a company winding-up petition cannot be brought in respect of a commercial rent, as described by the provisions in the Coronavirus Act 2020.

Starting with the first of the criteria, the new requirement for creditors to demonstrate that they have sought to negotiate the repayment of a debt, before presenting a winding-up petition, the creditor must send a notice to the company giving it 21 days to respond with proposals for paying the debt. Creditors will then be required to confirm to the court that they have sent the notice and whether they have received any proposals from the company, and if so, state why those proposals are not satisfactory. A creditor is not obliged to agree to the proposals put forward by the company. However, the court will be able to draw on its existing discretion to refuse to make a winding-up order where it appears that a creditor is attempting to abuse the winding-up process. The measure will reinforce the message that creditors and debtors should collaborate to find solutions to address arrears accrued as a result of the pandemic.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Will the Minister tell us how many companies have taken advantage of this situation thus far, how many companies he expects to fall within this provision over the next few months, and how he has determined that this is the right process for us to adopt at this stage?

[Paul Scully]

It is difficult to assess that at the moment. We believe that it has helped companies to get through this process, but we are not able at the moment to ascertain an accurate figure.

The second of the temporary criteria is that, in order to present a company winding-up petition, the debt owed must be at least £10,000. For the most part, there is not normally a minimum amount that must be owed before a winding-up petition can be brought, although based on the statutory demand the debt must be at least £750. Analysis suggests that a temporary minimum debt level of £10,000 could prevent in the region of 15% of petitions that would otherwise be presented. They would largely be petitions against small and medium-sized enterprises, which are likely to have smaller debts and lower cash reserves and, as such, are most in need of additional support.

That £10,000 limit also aligns with the existing £10,000 limit for bringing a case to the small claims court, making it easily recognisable as a rule, to prevent winding-up petitions being presented for small businesses and small debts in the aftermath of the pandemic.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Scully]

I thank hon. Members for their interesting and valuable contributions to the debate. Forgive me, Dr Huq, for not using your correct nomenclature earlier.

We have been helping companies throughout all of this, and we continue to do so. I am not sure whether I said at any time that it was the end of covid. As I have been saying for many months, this is not like a zombie film where the baddie is killed—end of covid and roll the credits. That is not the case. We will be living with it for some time, hence why the hon. Member for Rhondda is wearing a mask and why we are extending the measures before the Committee. We must ensure that, whatever happens in the next few months, we can keep businesses trading as best we can.

I did ask the Committee to approve the regulations because, yes, it will have considered them, but I want it to approve them. That is why I am begging the Committee—

[Chris Bryant]

We’re not.

[Paul Scully]

The hon. Gentleman says that we are not, and that is fine, but I want to be able to go back to businesses and say that we are four-square behind them in helping them through the crisis.

On what we have done for businesses, which was mentioned in a couple of contributions, we have been in close dialogue with businesses, professional groups and other organisations such as the Insolvency Service right the way through the process of these regulations about their likely impact. Indeed, on insolvencies, I am not sure of the exact figures now, but throughout the majority of the emergency they were at a 40-year low. We were clearly supporting businesses. However, that will have an impact down the line when business that would probably have been insolvent in normal times but have been held up by the suite of Government’s emergency measures start to fall by the wayside. That is the normal business cycle and landscape. None the less, there are clear signs from our feedback from businesses, business representative groups and the Insolvency Service that this measure has been useful and helpful.

The hon. Member for Feltham and Heston asked about what happened within the two-day window. When we spotted the drafting error, we laid the new SI. There were no winding-up petitions within those two days. On what happens if a repayment proposal is rejected, a court cannot force a company to accept a repayment proposal, but it will be able to refuse to issue a winding-up order where a creditor may be attempting to abuse the winding-up process, for example.

We continue to work with businesses on a number of measures. The hon. Lady asked what other support we are giving to small businesses, especially as we go through the winter. We are continuing to flex with, and listen to, businesses. Indeed, once I leave this sitting I will speak to really hard-pressed businesses from the hospitality sector, to listen to them and see how they are getting on. We regularly check in to see what businesses conditions are like. Clearly, the Budget is coming up shortly; we will see what their feedback is afterwards, and how it will affect them. We continue to ensure that we can flex our support, help and measures within that sphere, having had that feedback.

Importantly, what we are doing is extending these measures. We picked a six-month extension. To date, we have been going in three-month chunks, so that creditors in particular do not feel that we are only looking after debtors, and not looking after their interests as well. As I said, it is really important that we get a balanced, proportionate view between the two sides.

[Paul Scully]

As I say, it is ongoing. We will not set a particular arbitrary date for a statutory review because things can change very quickly. We have seen that right the way through the past 18 months. We do not want to be bounced, as clearly happened at points last year when we were chasing the virus, which affected the decisions made. We have learned a lot of lessons from that, but putting in an arbitrary review date is not particularly helpful when we are ensuring that we continue to speak to businesses on a day-to-day basis. On court fees, this is a modification of the usual court process for winding up, so no new fees are involved.

The hon. Member for Rhondda asked about Northern Ireland. It has laid its own regulations extending the same temporary consultancy measures as the rest of the United Kingdom.

[Chris Bryant]

This starts on 31 October. Today is 27 October. How is that providing sensible provisions for businesses, when there are only four days before it comes into operation?

[Paul Scully]

We laid the SI before then, and there is a clear direction from the Insolvency Service and other business groups on the intention of what is happening. The courts are obviously aware of the landscape. Yes, the measures are coming to us for discussion only today, but they were laid before the House and are known to business groups, with which, as I say, we continue the conversation so that they can see the constant direction. Clearly, when the measures end on 31 March 2022 it is envisaged that the insolvency regime will return to its normal operation; however, as I have been stressing, as the effects of the pandemic continue to be felt the Government will keep the requirement for the measures, as we do for all measures, under review.

[Paul Scully]

We have re-laid the SI so that there is no gap in provision. That is the key thing. It goes to 31 March 2022. I should say to the hon. Member for Rotherham, who spoke about debts—

[Chris Bryant]

That was me.

[Paul Scully]

No, this was about the debts over and above rent. Utilities, tax and supplies are the three obvious ones that I probably should have mentioned. I think I have gone through most of the issues that were raised.

Corporate Insolvency and Governance Bill

Debate between Chris Bryant and Paul Scully

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully)]

May I first welcome the hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell) to her place? I thank her and the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), for the engaging way in which they have spoken to officials. That has expedited the passage of this legislation, and our discussions—including with the SNP spokesman, the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry) —have been particularly fruitful.

Unfortunately, I cannot respond to every question in the short time available to me now, but I hope that we will pick up some of these discussions during the next stages of the Bill. I thank all right hon. and hon. Members who have spoken for their contributions to the debate, not least, as has been mentioned, the excellent maiden speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Heywood and Middleton (Chris Clarkson). May I add my happy birthday regards to Win Page? My hon. Friend talked about the fact that the general election seemed a long time ago, and made the point about the Olde Boar’s Head—and a haircut for me as well—so congratulations.

As was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Rugby (Mark Pawsey), the Institute of Directors and the Federation of Small Businesses have been incredibly supportive of the measures in this Bill. We welcome that support. It will help businesses that are struggling with the effects of the covid-19 crisis and lay the foundations for economic recovery in the UK. The insolvency reforms in the Bill will provide vital and urgent support for businesses to help them through the period of instability and to help them recover from the impact of covid-19 as the economy fully emerges from this crisis.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I am guessing that it could well be timely, but the Minister has a very limited time in which to speak, and he should finish his speech first. Then I will take the hon. Gentleman’s point of order.

[Paul Scully]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

The corporate restructuring package in particular will be of immediate help to companies in financial distress, which need further regulatory tools to help them recover. This Bill provides that. It will enable UK companies undergoing a rescue or restructuring process to continue trading, giving them breathing space that could help them avoid insolvency. I want to reassure right hon. and hon. Members that the temporary changes to insolvency law that are necessary to help businesses get through this unprecedented period will consider very carefully any case for further extensions to these powers, and they will be subject to the full scrutiny of the House.

The temporary prohibition on creditors filing statutory demands and winding-up petitions for covid-19-related debts will support the Government’s programme to help companies survive the covid-19 emergency. It will temporarily remove the threat of statutory demands and winding-up petitions being issued against otherwise viable companies by creditors not following the Government’s advice to show forbearance at this time.

Furthermore, temporarily removing the threat of personal liability for wrongful trading from directors who tried to keep their companies afloat throughout this emergency will encourage directors to continue to use their best efforts to trade during this uncertain time. The governance measures will provide temporary flexibilities on meetings and filings at a time when businesses are coping with reduced resources and restrictions due to social distancing measures.

Let me quickly address a couple of points made by the right hon. Member for Doncaster North. First, he is completely correct to say that, although there will be a temporary suspension of wrongful trading liability, directors will still have legal duties under wider company law. Those duties will remain in place, as will measures under insolvency law to penalise directors who abuse their position. I understand the suggestion of the right hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey that the temporary insolvency measures should be extended to 30 September 2020. At present, all the temporary insolvency measures will automatically sunset a month after Royal Assent. I can reassure them, though, that the Bill contains provisions enabling those temporary measures to be extended by statutory instrument where appropriate. The Government have every intention of making use of those provisions if the protections are needed beyond their present expiry date. It is a truly fluid situation and we do not want provisions to be in place for longer than is necessary.

The temporary measures all have significant impacts on the normal working of the business community, and the case for extending the measures will need to be considered against those impacts. Any extension should rightly be scrutinised by Parliament, but the Government will not hesitate to extend if that is required.

The right hon. Member for Doncaster North also raised a fair point on the need for employees to be protected in regard to restructuring plans. That point was also raised by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller). The aim of these measures is to restore the viability of struggling companies, thereby boosting the economy, saving jobs and protecting long-term investment. Yes, employees could find themselves as creditors in a restructuring plan, but in those circumstances, they will benefit from the same protections that are in place for other creditors and members. This will include the provision that they must be no worse off through the plan than they would otherwise be in the next most likely plan, and it will, of course, take into account their entitlement under employment legislation.

Importantly, a court can refuse to sanction a plan if it is not fair and it is equitable to do so. When making this assessment, one would expect the court to be mindful of the interests of employees in any pension schemes affected by that plan. If a restructuring plan is not agreed, it is worth remembering that the company might enter an insolvency proceeding, which would almost certainly produce a worse outcome overall for all involved. The company might stop trading altogether, which would put all employees at risk of losing their jobs. The Government are in the business of protecting jobs.

The right hon. Member for Doncaster North also raised concerns about CBILS and CLBILS, as well as the bounce-back loans. The Government have listened to helpful feedback on the business interruption loan schemes in recent weeks. That feedback has also shown that the smallest SMEs, some of which have perhaps not used finance in the past, are struggling to get their finance applications approved as quickly as they need, as we heard earlier. That is why the bounce-back loan schemes, which are fast for lenders to process and for businesses to access, have been launched.

On 27 April, the Chancellor announced the new bounce-back loan scheme, which will ensure that the smallest businesses can access up to £50,000 of loans in a matter of days. The scheme went live on 4 May. Businesses can complete a short, simple online application in up to a few hours. Under the scheme, there is no need for lenders to ask for complicated cash-flow forecasts or ask difficult questions about the future, which means those applications can be submitted and processed rapidly. Almost 700,000 have been have already been approved.

I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond), for Rugby and for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) and the hon. Members for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, for Bristol North West (Darren Jones), for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) and for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) for their contributions. I should say to my hon. Friend the Member for Wimbledon that the Charity Commission has confirmed that it will look favourably on charities that have been unable to hold their AGMs in the normal way, but asks that they write down their decisions to prove that they have done due diligence in holding a virtual AGM or delaying their AGM.

I applaud the passion of my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire in standing up for businesses being able to come out of the recovery, as we motor through, changing gears. We will not go back immediately to how things were in January; we have to work with business and listen to business. I am grateful to all other Members who have spoken today.

These new measures complement the Government’s existing far-reaching economic support package for businesses and workers through this emergency. Today’s debate on these measures reinforces the importance of responding to the concerns of UK businesses and providing them with much-needed support during this difficult time. We are in the midst of a global emergency, in which otherwise economically viable businesses are facing the risk of insolvency because of covid-19. We must protect them as best we can. It is imperative that we act now to support our businesses and do what we can to ensure that they survive, preserve jobs and support future growth. Clearly, our first priority is to protect lives, but restoring livelihoods, protecting businesses and getting the economy motoring is also essential. That is why it is imperative that we act now. The measures in the Bill will provide businesses with the flexibility and breathing space they need to continue trading during this difficult time and support the nation’s economic recovery.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

[Chris Bryant]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I apologise to the Minister; it was not my intention to be rude to him by interrupting him earlier.

We have gone past seven o’clock, as you will have noticed, Madam Deputy Speaker, which means that the motion in the name of the Leader of the House that pertains to virtual participation in proceedings during the pandemic will—I think this is the Government’s intention—be a “nod or nothing” measure. There can be no debate, and if it is opposed, it therefore falls. I have tabled an amendment and I have no intention of withdrawing it. I would want to contest the motion, and I understand that the amendment would be selected by the Speaker if it were to proceed. It is my understanding that it cannot now proceed. Nobody needs to object; it simply cannot now proceed because it is opposed business. Is that your understanding as well?